XTension digest Tuesday, July 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 313 Re: X'ing the Mac RE: WeatherMac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac RE: Sprinkler scripts DSL & Mac OS X Re: X'ing the Mac RE: X'ing the Mac RE: X'ing the Mac RE: X'ing the Mac 3rd Party RAM RE: X'ing the Mac Re: 3rd Party RAM RE: X'ing the Mac Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: 3rd Party RAM Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Re: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Re: X'ing the Mac Re: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Think Tank Re: X'ing the Mac Re: Where to start X'ing ? Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'in the Mac Booting OS 9 or X Slightly Off Topic:RE: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Re: AppleScript OS 9.1 trouble Re: Booting OS 9 or X Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: Adjusting video screen masks Re: Slightly Off Topic:RE: Relay Boards RE: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Re: Booting OS 9 or X Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Re: X'ing the Mac Mac ATA bus topology 101 The Mac is X'd Re: Won't receive OFF command? Re: X'ing the Mac Re: The Mac is X'd Re: The Mac is X'd last comments. remember .pict NOT loading. Re: The Mac is X'd last comments. Re: remember .pict NOT loading. Re: Won't receive OFF command? Pseudo or global? Re: Won't receive OFF command? Re: Pseudo or global? Re: Won't receive OFF command? OSXtension Re: Won't receive OFF command? Re: Won't receive OFF command? Re: Pseudo or global? Possible Bug, Again... Re: 3rd Party RAM Re: Won't receive OFF command? Lynx-10 PLC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:54:14 -0400 From: Jeffrey Lomicka Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac >Just a suggestion, but I've been running off OS9.1 with OSX on the same >partition. No problems at all. Any reason that you want separate partitions? I can't use the same system folder for "Classic" mode of X as I use for booting 9.1 directly, because some of my extensions cause "Classic" to hang on startup. I suppose you could do this by having two 9.1's on the same partition. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:53:35 -0400 From: "Davis, Dean" Subject: RE: WeatherMac This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11376.7C1C6970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Best test to see is NWS is up and running is to attempt to FTP to weather.noaa.gov If it's down then WeatherMan will not work. I can't speak to if this holds true for WeatherMac. Also WeatherMan (when registered) makes the forecast text (current and extended) available via AppleScript. You could probably parse out the information. But I would make a request of Scott I think it would be very easy for him to provide the same information. Dean Davis http://homepage.mac.com/deandavis/WeatherMan.htm - -----Original Message----- From: Jerry [mailto:jerry@jerryspond.com] Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:52 PM To: xtensionlist@shed.com Subject: Re: WeatherMac Chuck, I don't believe that WeatherMac has that capability at the present but, Scott has always gotten back to me about changes I've asked for. Michael (as usual) has a better idea on if Scott is able to work on the product anymore. Jp on 7/22/01 6:14 PM, Coleman at coleman@teleport.com wrote: Is there anyway that you can get tomorrows forecast high temperature via WeatherMac? With the Weeder board in full swing I want to compare tomorrows predicted high to the night time outside temperature. That way I can have a script that turns on the fans to pre cool the house with (relatively) cheap night air instead of using my air conditioner the next day. If its going to be cool I want the fans to be left off so I can retain the residual heat. I recorded a temperature of 166 degrees on my solar collector. I am slowly making modifications to it and using the Weeder board to verify that the changes are having a positive effect on the maximum temperature. This is a way cool project. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11376.7C1C6970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: WeatherMac

Best test to see is NWS is up and running is to = attempt to FTP to weather.noaa.gov

If it's down then WeatherMan will not work. I can't = speak to if this holds true for WeatherMac.

Also WeatherMan (when registered) makes the forecast = text (current and extended) available via AppleScript.

You could probably parse out the information. But I = would make a request of Scott I think it would be very easy for him to = provide the same information.

Dean Davis
http://homepage.mac.com/deandavis/WeatherMan.htm =


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry [mailto:jerry@jerryspond.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:52 PM
To: xtensionlist@shed.com
Subject: Re: WeatherMac


Chuck,

    I don't believe that WeatherMac = has that capability at the present but, Scott has always gotten back to = me about changes I've asked for.  Michael (as usual) has a better = idea on if Scott is able to work on the product anymore.

Jp

on 7/22/01 6:14 PM, Coleman at coleman@teleport.com = wrote:


Is there anyway that you can get tomorrows forecast = high temperature via WeatherMac?

With the Weeder board in full swing I want to compare = tomorrows predicted high to the night time outside temperature. That = way I can have a script that turns on the fans to pre cool the house = with (relatively) cheap night air instead of using my air conditioner = the next day. If its going to be cool I want the fans to be left off so = I can retain the residual heat.

I recorded a temperature of 166 degrees on my solar = collector. I am slowly making modifications to it and using the Weeder = board to verify that the changes are having a positive effect on the = maximum temperature. This is a way cool project.

Chuck Coleman
coleman@teleport.com
NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading
-------------------------------------------------------

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11376.7C1C6970-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:21:33 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac on 7/23/01 4:54 AM, Jeffrey Lomicka at jlomicka@Mac.Com wrote: > I suppose you could do this by having two 9.1's on the same partition. Having two 9.1's on the same partition will cause you the worst headache you have ever had. You can put OSX and 9.1 on the same partition and it will work which is what I have done. It has its problems with doing that and I am going to put OSX on a separate partition. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:40:55 -0400 From: James Sentman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac >on 7/23/01 4:54 AM, Jeffrey Lomicka at jlomicka@Mac.Com wrote: > >> I suppose you could do this by having two 9.1's on the same partition. > >Having two 9.1's on the same partition will cause you the worst headache >you have ever had. I'm curious what problems this is causing you? With previous versions of the OS you had to use something like System Picker to switch the 'blessed' system folder around (or manage that yourself by moving the system file) And I do remember that could lead to wierdness. But under 9.1 and X the startup control panels all properly manage multiple system folders. In my case I've got actually 3 partitions on my powerbook. My main partition is just 9.1 with a single system folder. On the second partition I've got a copy of my main system folder, an OSX partition and a separate classic install. When I run the startup disk control panel either from X or 9.1 it gives me the option of booting from 3 different places on that partition. the root level 9.1, the classic 9.1 or the X. I've booted from all of these for various reasons and never had any problem at all. Thanks, James - -- _________________________________________________________________________ James Sentman http://www.sentman.com Enterprise server monitoring with: http://whistleblower.sentman.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:39:52 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Good Morning Folks, I'm completely stumped. Let's get back to basics. I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk, created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD. Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer. The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions. I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that has been loaded. Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9 on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring. The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or loading the OS on it. My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that is causing the problem. For example, the unit number for the drive, some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue. I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1. I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that I need to update any firmware. The only things it says I need are : AGP Update Apple CPU Plugins AppleScript Update CarbonLib Multiple Users Open Transport 2.7.6 Startup Disk URL Access (Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime for JAVA) I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created. I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day, I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem. And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig :-) What's the next step ? michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:50:44 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Michael, When you formated the hard drive did you ALSO have it update/install the disk driver? If you bought this Mac from a 3rd party maybe they installed a non APPLE disk driver. my little ole 2 cents, Ray Fleischmann ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:54:52 -0700 From: "Yarmas, Tom" Subject: RE: Sprinkler scripts An X-10 relay board is like having a bunch of universal modules together. See the link below, but note that I got mine at worthington (www.worthdist.com -better prices). http://www.smarthome.com/x10lowvrly.html - -tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Blethen [mailto:steve@thecolony.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:17 PM > To: xtension > Subject: Re: Sprinkler scripts > > > >I finally replaced my failed sprinkler controller with an > X-10 relay board. > > > What is an X-10 relay board? How do I get one? I wanna control my > sprinklers via x-10 as well but don't want to spend a fortune > doing it. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:57:30 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: DSL & Mac OS X Since we are in a lull on XTension for the moment I just thought that some people on this list might like to know that configuring Mac OS X's network for PPPoE using a DSL from Bellsouth.net works GREAT. In fact it works better that the Mac OS 9 "EnterNet" software. My DSL connection has been up for 18 hours now where as with OS 9 it disconnected often. again my 2 cents, and now back to our regually scheduled program.........X T e n s i o n Ray Fleischmann ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:55:32 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Ray said : > When you formated the hard drive did you ALSO have it update/install the >disk driver? > If you bought this Mac from a 3rd party maybe they installed a non APPLE >disk driver. Hello Ray, I did not specifically tell the Drive Setup program to install the drivers. I believe though that I saw the messages that said that it was installing them. All of this Mac is pure Apple, with the exception of a 256MB RAM strip from Kensington. thanks michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:00:14 -0400 From: "Davis, Dean" Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.2D790370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Have you tried installing OS X first then OS 9.1? How big are the partitions you have allocated for each OS? Dean Davis - -----Original Message----- From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:40 AM To: xtensionlist@shed.com Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Good Morning Folks, I'm completely stumped. Let's get back to basics. I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk, created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD. Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer. The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions. I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that has been loaded. Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9 on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring. The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or loading the OS on it. My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that is causing the problem. For example, the unit number for the drive, some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue. I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1. I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that I need to update any firmware. The only things it says I need are : AGP Update Apple CPU Plugins AppleScript Update CarbonLib Multiple Users Open Transport 2.7.6 Startup Disk URL Access (Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime for JAVA) I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created. I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day, I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem. And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig :-) What's the next step ? michael - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.2D790370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: X'ing the Mac

Have you tried installing OS X first then OS 9.1?

How big are the partitions you have allocated for each OS?

Dean Davis

-----Original Message-----
From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:40 AM
To: xtensionlist@shed.com
Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac



Good Morning Folks,

I'm completely stumped.  Let's get back to basics.

I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk,
created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD
onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD.

Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on
one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer.

The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions.
I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that
has been loaded.

Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9
on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring.

The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or
loading the OS on it.

My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that
is causing the problem.  For example, the unit number for the drive,
some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue.

I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1.
I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that
I need to update any firmware.

The only things it says I need are :
AGP Update
Apple CPU Plugins
AppleScript Update
CarbonLib
Multiple Users
Open Transport 2.7.6
Startup Disk
URL Access
(Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime
for JAVA)

I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that
any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created.

I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent
and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day,
I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem.

And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig  :-)
What's the next step ?
michael

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.2D790370-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:06:04 -0400 From: "Davis, Dean" Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.FE67CCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Also try zapping your PRAM before starting up with the OS X Install CD. (command-option P-R) Dean Davis - -----Original Message----- From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:40 AM To: xtensionlist@shed.com Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Good Morning Folks, I'm completely stumped. Let's get back to basics. I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk, created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD. Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer. The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions. I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that has been loaded. Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9 on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring. The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or loading the OS on it. My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that is causing the problem. For example, the unit number for the drive, some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue. I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1. I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that I need to update any firmware. The only things it says I need are : AGP Update Apple CPU Plugins AppleScript Update CarbonLib Multiple Users Open Transport 2.7.6 Startup Disk URL Access (Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime for JAVA) I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created. I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day, I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem. And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig :-) What's the next step ? michael - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.FE67CCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: X'ing the Mac

Also try zapping your PRAM before starting up with the OS X Install CD.
(command-option P-R)

Dean Davis

-----Original Message-----
From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:40 AM
To: xtensionlist@shed.com
Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac



Good Morning Folks,

I'm completely stumped.  Let's get back to basics.

I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk,
created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD
onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD.

Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on
one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer.

The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions.
I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that
has been loaded.

Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9
on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring.

The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or
loading the OS on it.

My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that
is causing the problem.  For example, the unit number for the drive,
some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue.

I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1.
I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that
I need to update any firmware.

The only things it says I need are :
AGP Update
Apple CPU Plugins
AppleScript Update
CarbonLib
Multiple Users
Open Transport 2.7.6
Startup Disk
URL Access
(Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime
for JAVA)

I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that
any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created.

I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent
and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day,
I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem.

And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig  :-)
What's the next step ?
michael

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11388.FE67CCA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:04:49 -0400 From: michael Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac Davis, said : >Have you tried installing OS X first then OS 9.1? > >How big are the partitions you have allocated for each OS? Hi Dean, Yes, early on in the process I tried putting X on a single partition, and on a dual partition'd drive. I have one 4GB and one 26GB partition. michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:13:32 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: 3rd Party RAM Michael, Since you mentioned non Apple Ram, DON'T update your firmware BEFORE checking Apple's Tech site. I just read an article that stated some 3rd part RAM's will NOT work AFTER a firmware upgade takes place. Ray Fleischmann > From: michael > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:55:32 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac > > Ray said : >> When you formated the hard drive did you ALSO have it update/install the >> disk driver? >> If you bought this Mac from a 3rd party maybe they installed a non APPLE >> disk driver. > > Hello Ray, > > I did not specifically tell the Drive Setup program to install the drivers. > I believe though that I saw the messages that said that it was installing > them. > > All of this Mac is pure Apple, with the exception of a 256MB RAM > strip from Kensington. > > thanks > michael > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:12:13 -0400 From: michael Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac Davis, said : >Also try zapping your PRAM before starting up with the OS X Install CD. >(command-option P-R) Did it twice even... There was something screwey after the first time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:14:31 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM Ray said : > Since you mentioned non Apple Ram, DON'T update your firmware BEFORE >checking Apple's Tech site. I just read an article that stated some 3rd part >RAM's will NOT work AFTER a firmware upgade takes place. Question: Is it true that the Software Update function will tell me if any firmware needs to be updated ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:22:21 -0400 From: "Davis, Dean" Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1138B.447B7CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, If this helps I have OS 9.1 and OS X on one partition and it works fine. Not optimal, but it worked for me. Dean Davis - -----Original Message----- From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:12 AM To: xtensionlist@shed.com Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac Davis, said : >Also try zapping your PRAM before starting up with the OS X Install CD. >(command-option P-R) Did it twice even... There was something screwey after the first time. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1138B.447B7CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: X'ing the Mac

Well, If this helps I have OS 9.1 and OS X on one partition and it works fine.

Not optimal, but it worked for me.

Dean Davis

-----Original Message-----
From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:12 AM
To: xtensionlist@shed.com
Subject: RE: X'ing the Mac


Davis, said :
>Also try zapping your PRAM before starting up with the OS X Install CD.
>(command-option P-R)

Did it twice even... There was something screwey after the first time.


- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1138B.447B7CD0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:25:35 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM Michael, Yes, it will. I installed 9.1 on the orginal Bundi Blue iMac about 6 months ago and the Software Update program told me about a firmware update. I hate doing those. If Florida Flicker and flash strikes in the middle you have to ship your Mac back to Apple for repairs. The last time I did a firm ware upgrade I double UPS'ed it just to be safe. :-) Ray > From: michael > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:14:31 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM > > Ray said : >> Since you mentioned non Apple Ram, DON'T update your firmware BEFORE >> checking Apple's Tech site. I just read an article that stated some 3rd part >> RAM's will NOT work AFTER a firmware upgade takes place. > > Question: > > Is it true that the Software Update function will tell me if any firmware > needs to be updated ? > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:30:52 -0400 From: James Sentman Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM >Ray said : >> Since you mentioned non Apple Ram, DON'T update your firmware BEFORE >>checking Apple's Tech site. I just read an article that stated some 3rd part > >RAM's will NOT work AFTER a firmware upgade takes place.] The firmware update disables ram that does not meet the timing specs that apple requires. They decided that bad ram was costing them too many support calls. You can run 'dimm check' I think thats what it's called you can get it at version tracker and it will tell you if your ram will pass the test or not. > >Question: > >Is it true that the Software Update function will tell me if any firmware >needs to be updated ? I'm not sure about this. I know that I had to run the updater directly from apple's download site on my pwerbook. But then I'm not sure I ran software update first to look for it. I would just download it and run it. If your machine doesn't need it it will not run and just tell you that. - -James - -- _________________________________________________________________________ James Sentman http://www.sentman.com Enterprise server monitoring with: http://whistleblower.sentman.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:30:33 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM Ray said : > Yes, it will. I installed 9.1 on the orginal Bundi Blue iMac about 6 >months ago and the Software Update program told me about a firmware update. >I hate doing those. If Florida Flicker and flash strikes in the middle you >have to ship your Mac back to Apple for repairs. The last time I did a firm >ware upgrade I double UPS'ed it just to be safe. :-) Can I assume that if there is anything screwed up with the firmware that I would see some other artifacts ? Like it just wouldn't work ? Forgive me for acting simple, but I am trying to blank my mind so that my experience base doesn't cause me to assume anything... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:38:03 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM Michael, The firmware upgrade if not finnished results in a dead Mac ;-( Ray > From: michael > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:30:33 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM > > Ray said : >> Yes, it will. I installed 9.1 on the orginal Bundi Blue iMac about 6 >> months ago and the Software Update program told me about a firmware update. >> I hate doing those. If Florida Flicker and flash strikes in the middle you >> have to ship your Mac back to Apple for repairs. The last time I did a firm >> ware upgrade I double UPS'ed it just to be safe. :-) > > Can I assume that if there is anything screwed up with the firmware that > I would see some other artifacts ? Like it just wouldn't work ? > > Forgive me for acting simple, but I am trying to blank my mind so that > my experience base doesn't cause me to assume anything... > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:37:06 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM James said : >The firmware update disables ram that does not meet the timing specs >that apple requires. They decided that bad ram was costing them too >many support calls. You can run 'dimm check' I think thats what it's >called you can get it at version tracker and it will tell you if your >ram will pass the test or not. Thanks James, I downloaded it and it says that the RAM is ok. Very nice. One less worry... michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:40:10 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM Ray said : >Michael, > The firmware upgrade if not finnished results in a dead Mac ;-( >Ray Thanks Ray, Another dead worry. michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:09:53 -0400 From: "Arman, Tom" Subject: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Doe anyone know how the "momentary" version of these relay boards respond to X10 signals? The "Universal Modules" in momentary mode flip to "on" upon receipt of the X10 signal and flip back "off" after 2 or 3 seconds, seemingly independent of the X10 activity that is (or is not) still going on its house_code/unit_number. I want a relay that stays closed as long as there are "ON" signals and drops back to "OFF" quickly when the "ON" signals stop. Any ideas? Tom - -----Original Message----- From: Yarmas, Tom [mailto:Tom.Yarmas@netapp.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:55 AM To: 'xtensionlist@shed.com' Subject: RE: Sprinkler scripts An X-10 relay board is like having a bunch of universal modules together. See the link below, but note that I got mine at worthington (www.worthdist.com -better prices). http://www.smarthome.com/x10lowvrly.html - -tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Blethen [mailto:steve@thecolony.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:17 PM > To: xtension > Subject: Re: Sprinkler scripts > > > >I finally replaced my failed sprinkler controller with an > X-10 relay board. > > > What is an X-10 relay board? How do I get one? I wanna control my > sprinklers via x-10 as well but don't want to spend a fortune > doing it. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:08:34 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) Arman, said : >I want a relay that stays closed as long as there are "ON" signals and drops >back to "OFF" quickly when the "ON" signals stop. Hello Tom, I don't think that there is any such product available. Further, if there were, I believe that it would be unreliable since you could not guarantee that the ON commands could 'keep coming' at a rate that would keep the relay unit happy so that it did not 'time out' and re-open the relay. But it works that you simply tell it to turn on (close), and then tell it to turn off (open) in the same way that you would decide to stop sending the ON commands... ? michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:18:12 -0700 From: "Scott A. Gardner" Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac When I got my G4/400 last October I could not get OS X (the beta) to install either. I don't remember the exact details, but it would always get part way through the process and then give me an error message. I reformatted the drive a couple of times and still no success. I was also experiencing occasional crashes under 9.x. I started playing with the memory modules and that did the trick. I found a bad one by swapping them out one at a time. Got a replacement from the vendor and have had a wonderfully stable system since and no more problems installing X. However, even though I think X is going to be great I kept going back to 9 for my day to day computing. I'm looking forward to 10.1 to try to make the transition again. - -- Scott -- >Good Morning Folks, > >I'm completely stumped. Let's get back to basics. > >I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk, >created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD >onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD. > >Regardless of which partition, regardless of whether I've put 9.1 on >one or both partitions, I still get to the same wall in the Installer. > >The installer simply does not recognize the drive or partitions. >I do not believe this has anything to do with the version of OS 9 that >has been loaded. > >Although the Installer complains that it cannot find a proper version of OS 9 >on the drive, I believe that that is a red herring. > >The OS 9 installer has no trouble seeing the drive, partitioning it, or >loading the OS on it. > >My feeling is that there is some hardware configuration element that >is causing the problem. For example, the unit number for the drive, >some default PRAM setting, or possibly some firmware issue. > >I have loaded the distribution OS 9.1. >I have used the 'software update' function, and it does not say that >I need to update any firmware. > >The only things it says I need are : >AGP Update >Apple CPU Plugins >AppleScript Update >CarbonLib >Multiple Users >Open Transport 2.7.6 >Startup Disk >URL Access >(Also AirPort Software, AppleDVD Player, Disc Burner and MacOS Runtime >for JAVA) > >I have not performed any of those updates yet as I cannot determine that >any are required, or were required before the Release CD was created. > >I am sorry for this diversion, (Really!), but this list is loaded with talent >and experience with this subject, and IF we are to put XTension on X some day, >I must be able to help others who might encounter the same problem. > >And, I've spent YOUR annual fees for this pig :-) >What's the next step ? >michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:19:31 -0400 From: James Sentman Subject: Re: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) > >I want a relay that stays closed as long as there are "ON" signals and drops >back to "OFF" quickly when the "ON" signals stop. Sounds like you want to control it through XTension! Put the module on a separate unit code from the source of the on's. put a script in the on event for the sensor in XTension that turns on the module and creates an event to turn the module back off in a few minutes time. You can then delay that event with each successive on command. I do something very similar with dimming my porch lights. Though there are probably many ways to do this I would do it with a script in the on event of the sensor like this: turn on "the module" try suspend event "turn off the module" for 10 * minutes on error create event "turn off the module" that turns off unit "the module" in 10 * minutes end try So the first thing it will try to do is suspend an existing event and if that event doesn't exist it will create it. - -James - -- _________________________________________________________________________ James Sentman http://www.sentman.com Enterprise server monitoring with: http://whistleblower.sentman.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:20:13 -0400 From: michael Subject: Think Tank Hi Folks, Over the past few days, I've had a visitor here who is one of the truly brilliant visionaries in the computer world. Jim Ellis, the original 'Mac Jim', has been filling my brain with ideas for home automation, and it really hurts that I'm trying at the same time to get this $%^&# OS X thing loaded. Last evening we were at a party with other developers who are working on 3DVR, and wireless technologies, and remote learning. Russians, Georgians, Indians, Egyptians, and one Texan... a very stimulating evening. I'm taking notes, and if I can just get this OS X thing out of my craw, I'll start a thread here about new thoughts. The most wonderful thing is this list. What a fantastic resource pool for one silly little isolated developer like me :-) michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:18:14 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Hi Folks, I've browsed the Apple discussions about installing OS X, and found that there are others with exactly the same problem... only with other models... The concensus is that there is some jumper selection on the hard drive that selects "MASTER" mode, and that must be True. I'm now looking for the jumper documentation. michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:21:49 -0700 From: Doug Korns Subject: Re: Where to start X'ing ? >You then want to install MacOS 9 into both partitions, then install >MacOS X into the smaller one. > >The reason for this is that many extensions you want to run on MacOS >9 are going to be incompatible with "classic" mode on MacOS X, as >well as just plain not needed there, so you want a "dirty" MacOS 9 >system folder for regular MacOS 9 work, and a separate "clean" one >for running classic applications on MacOS X. > I also would recommend this configuration. That is, a separate 9.1 system on the partition with Mac OS X for running with X and a separate 9.1 partition that might have X-unfriendly extensions. Another reason, is that in trouble situations, you can hold down tha option key immediately after startup and get an open firmware startup selection of all partitions. If you only have one partition, you can only start from that partition and it will start from the last blessed System Folder. If this was Mac OS X and you want to switch to Mac OS 9, you can't do that from the OF selection screen. Even though you may have Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X on the partition, it will start from the last selected OS (Startup Disk Control Panel or System Preferences/Startuip disk Pane). Also note that this startup selection from OF is only temporary for that startup. A permanent change can only be done from the Startup Disk Panel/Pane. With a second partition, you can always select it to startup with Mac OS 9. Keeping a Classic 9.1 System Folder on the Mac OS X partition will also keep separate the small chnages that the Classic environment makes to this system folder from infiltrating your pure Mac OS 9 folder on its separate partition. Not that this causes any problems, it just eliminates a variable and maintains the untaintedness of the Mac OS 9 only partition. Doug Korns ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:29:59 -0700 From: Bryn Hughes Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Hi Michael, The latest G4 firmware update IS specifically for OS X compatibility. I have heard that you could install X without it, but I believe that was BEFORE 10.0.4 came out. The firmware update appeared somewhere around the same time as one of the revisions, so I'd suspect that may be your problem. Be aware, however, that if you have any 3rd party RAM that isn't fully compliant with Apple's specs it will be disabled by the firmware update. For the most part this seems to only happen with very cheap RAM from more or less 'unknown' sources. Bryn >Jeffrey said : >>I don't get it. This is entirely contrary to my experience. > >The System Profiler says that it's a M7892LL/A (dual 450Mhz G4) >Rom revision is $77D.45F6 >Boot ROM version: $004.18f5 >Mac OS ROM file version: 6.1f9 > >The 30GB drive is an ATA type, formatted (HFS+) as two partitions. >One partition is 4GB, the other 26+ > >The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) > >The weird thing is that the installer doesn't 'see' either of the two >partitions. > >The docs say that I might have to upgrade the 'firmware'. >Is this something that would kill the installation ? > >I agree that this is weird. Is there something that could be wrong with >the hard drives that could stop the OS X installation but would allow >me to install OS 9 in various flavors ? (I was able to install 9.2 with >no trouble)... > >very puzzled >michael - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:39:10 -0700 From: Doug Korns Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac >I'm completely stumped. Let's get back to basics. > >I've completely stripped the Dual G4 back to a blank disk, >created two HFS+ partitions, loaded OS 9.1 from the distribution CD >onto one partition, and then tried to load OS X from the distribution CD. > After loading 9.1, open the Software Update Control Panel and acquire whatever updates might be available. There might be a firmware update for your machine. After that, try the Mac OS X steps again. Doug Korns ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:39:16 -0700 From: Doug Korns Subject: Re: X'in the Mac >Make sure you >only have apple supplied ram in when you run the firmware updates, >the last firmware updates trashed some third party ram. > The updates do not trash the RAM. The updates increases the Mac's intolerance for out of specification RAM. Bad RAM had become the source of other hard to detect system problems for support agents. Put the RAM in a non-Apple machine and it will work fine. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:05:29 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: Booting OS 9 or X Say, Did EVERYONE know that if you hold down the "Option" key while booting a Mac with OS X on it you get a screen with icons to allow you to select booting from OS 9.x or OS X my 2 ˘ Ray Fleischmann ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:21:06 -0400 From: "Arman, Tom" Subject: Slightly Off Topic:RE: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) OK, rather than talking about a possible solution, maybe if I explain the problem first someone here can help me solve it. I have a 6x8 foot video screen with a "masking system" that brings black fabric down from the top and up from the bottom to mask out the unused white screen area while I am projecting a movie in letterbox format. The setup requires connecting the "open" lead to a common lead to open the mask and connecting the "close" lead to the same common lead to close it down. If the open contact closure is held, the mask opens fully and stops by itself (has a limit switch). Same with the close contact (limit switch stops it at the proper spacing for a 2.35:1 wide screen movie.) If you open the contacts while the mask is moving, it stops at whatever opening it is at when you break the contact. By using a single-pole-double-throw-center-off switch I can manually stop it at the opening required for 1.85:1 movies or the opening required for 16x9 HDTV or let it go all the way to the limit switches. I want to do this action by pressing ,holding, and then releasing a button on my IR remote control. I am currently "trying to use" the X10 box that converts IR to X10 signals and two universal modules. Needless to say, I have very little control over how long the contacts stay closed with this setup. (However, being lucky, the close-from-full-open time using the universal module is just about right for HDTV ;-) Anyone have any neat X10 (or IR only) solutions? Tom - -----Original Message----- From: michael [mailto:michael@shed.com] Arman, said : >I want a relay that stays closed as long as there are "ON" signals and drops >back to "OFF" quickly when the "ON" signals stop. Michael said : I don't think that there is any such product available. Further, if there were, I believe that it would be unreliable since you could not guarantee that the ON commands could 'keep coming' at a rate that would keep the relay unit happy so that it did not 'time out' and re-open the relay. But it works that you simply tell it to turn on (close), and then tell it to turn off (open) in the same way that you would decide to stop sending the ON commands... ? michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:14:35 -0400 From: Jacques Therrien Subject: Re: AppleScript OS 9.1 trouble Date: 2001-07-21 22:03 -0400 Hendrik W. M. van Eeden: >Removing the folder inside the Scripting additions folder fixed all problems. > >Henk Yes indeed! I had removed the folders before but then added Micheal's additions which contain the "Dialects" folder. I just removed the latter and everything is now fine running Xtension with CarbonLib 1.3.1 Thanks Cheers, Jacques >Jacques Therrien wrote: > >> Date: 2001-07-19 12:11 -0700 >> Doug Korns: >> >> >>The verison 1.3.1 of Carbon Lib does not work with >> >>Xtension. You need to toss it out and replace it with a previous version. >> >> >> >This is not a correct statement. I'd like to clarify this >> >misunderstanding. >> > >> >Mac OS 9.1, CarbonLib 1.3.1, and XTension (probably any version) will >> >work together. I'm been running this configuration. <------ etc. ------> >> >> >Simply remove any subfolders in Scripting Additions and CarbonLib 1.3.1 >> >can exists with Mac OS 9.1 and AppleScript. >> >> Doug, >> >> That did not work for me. I also used Mac OS 9.1 with CarbonLib 1.3.1. >> >> I had to switch back to CarbonLib 1.2.5, otherwise I simply could not get >> Open Transport to load, and that caused dozens of other problems. >> >> It was Michael who suggested I get rid of CarbonLib 1.3.1 and all problems >> disappeared instantly. I did not change the AppleScript extrension (still >> v. 1.6) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jacques ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:17:57 -0700 From: Gordon Meyer Subject: Re: Booting OS 9 or X > Did EVERYONE know that if you hold down the "Option" key while booting a > Mac with OS X on it you get a screen with icons to allow you to select > booting from OS 9.x or OS X > > my 2 ˘ Any newer Macintosh will do this, but older machines do not have this feature. It's not dependant upon X, it's tied to your hardware. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:23:06 -0500 From: Ryan McElroy Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac > >The 30GB drive is an ATA type, formatted (HFS+) as two partitions. >One partition is 4GB, the other 26+ > >The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) Micheal, I have a dual 450 with two hard drives and I believe you need to install OSx with the hard drive set to ATA 0 for it to work. Don't remember where I read that to verify your problem, but I think you're on the right track. Ryan - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:25:10 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac You know that OSX will do a restart off the OSX installer to load. It isn't like the regular OS we are used to. Don't know if you are missing that or not but worth mentioning. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:31:33 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac on 7/23/01 7:40 AM, James Sentman at james@sentman.com wrote: > I'm curious what problems this is causing you? While "they" say you can load several systems on one disk with 9.1 I have found extension conflicts. In diagnosing the problem it is difficult to see which system is causing the problem. Apple has told me not to put two systems on one partition unless it is 9.1 and OSX. Even with that I have trouble on startup as using the option key only gives me one system on each partition. While I have have 9.1 and OSX on a single partition and the same on a backup partition it will only show one from each partition. I have to select one of the systems to start up and then have to use the startup control panel to select the system I want to use. I had it working well on my previous HD and then I upgraded to a larger HD and this is what I get now and it is a real hassle. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:34:23 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --B_3078732863_113199 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable on 7/23/01 8:00 AM, Davis, Dean at Dean.Davis@thehollandgroupinc.com wrote: > How big are the partitions you have allocated for each OS? Good point. You have to have at least 1 GB for OSX. I have used FWB with OSX and it doesn=B9t seem to make any difference. While it doesn=B9t work in Classic mode OSX doesn=B9t seem to care about the HD driver. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- - --B_3078732863_113199 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: X'ing the Mac on 7/23/01 8:00 AM, Davis, Dean at Dean.Davis@theholl= andgroupinc.com wrote:

How big are the par= titions you have allocated for each OS?

Good point. You have to have at least 1 GB for OSX.

I have used FWB with OSX and it doesn’t seem to make any difference. = While it doesn’t work in Classic mode OSX doesn’t seem to care a= bout the HD driver.

Chuck Coleman
coleman@teleport.com
NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading
- -------------------------------------------------------

 - --B_3078732863_113199-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:35:59 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM on 7/23/01 8:14 AM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > Is it true that the Software Update function will tell me if any firmware > needs to be updated ? It didn't do that for me. I had to get it word of mouth to even realize that there was one out there for my PowerBook. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:37:28 -0400 From: "Jeffrey A. Lomicka" Subject: Re: Adjusting video screen masks So, you are saying you want to be able to watch the mask close, and press a button at just the right time for the aspect ratio of the media you are currently watching? That requires a really low latency between the observation and the system reaction. That's hard with X10 technology. I think I would investigate a solution that eliminated the latency component by requiring you to state ahead of time, by the choice of button you push, what aspect ratio you want. You could dedicate an X10 remote to it, with a button for each useful position. Behind each button is a script that closes a universal module or other relay for a measured duration of time. XTension can do that, and would be pretty reliable at getting the timing down to within a half second or so. (You need two relays, one for open and one for close.) The last button would be a "tweak" that moved it up or down by half an inch, to account for variations in timing. You would have XTension remember the current position of the mask, so that it could decide if it needed to go up or down, adjust the up and down timings accordingly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:47:45 -0500 From: Dave Leland Subject: Re: Slightly Off Topic:RE: Relay Boards Just curious, is this homemade or semi-pre-built system? Sounds neat. With triplets on the way it's going to be a *long* time before we see the innards of a 'real' movie theater! I'm waiting for the DLP projectors to come down in price and improve in brightness. Anyone happy with any of these? Dave > I have a 6x8 foot video screen with a "masking system" that brings black > fabric down from the top and up from the bottom to mask out the unused white > screen area while I am projecting a movie in letterbox format. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:45:55 -0700 From: "Yarmas, Tom" Subject: RE: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) RCS does make momentary relays (I used the "latched" version) and since each address can handle either normally open or normally closed environments, they should work fine for your example. http://www.worthdist.com/rcs-relays.htm - -tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Arman, Tom [mailto:TArman@rational.com] > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:10 PM > To: 'xtensionlist@shed.com' > Subject: Relay Boards (was RE: Sprinkler scripts) > > > Doe anyone know how the "momentary" version of these relay > boards respond to > X10 signals? > > The "Universal Modules" in momentary mode flip to "on" upon > receipt of the > X10 signal and flip back "off" after 2 or 3 seconds, > seemingly independent > of the X10 activity that is (or is not) still going on its > house_code/unit_number. > > I want a relay that stays closed as long as there are "ON" > signals and drops > back to "OFF" quickly when the "ON" signals stop. > > Any ideas? > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yarmas, Tom [mailto:Tom.Yarmas@netapp.com] > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:55 AM > To: 'xtensionlist@shed.com' > Subject: RE: Sprinkler scripts > > > An X-10 relay board is like having a bunch of universal > modules together. > See the link below, but note that I got mine at worthington > (www.worthdist.com -better prices). > http://www.smarthome.com/x10lowvrly.html > > -tom > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve Blethen [mailto:steve@thecolony.net] > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:17 PM > > To: xtension > > Subject: Re: Sprinkler scripts > > > > > > >I finally replaced my failed sprinkler controller with an > > X-10 relay board. > > > > > > What is an X-10 relay board? How do I get one? I wanna control my > > sprinklers via x-10 as well but don't want to spend a fortune > > doing it. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:56:24 -0700 From: Richie Subject: Re: Booting OS 9 or X Depends on which Mac. Neither my Lombard Powerbook or beige G3 have that option. Have a birthday coming up so just maybe a new Mac with that capability will find its way to our house. >Say, > Did EVERYONE know that if you hold down the "Option" key while booting a >Mac with OS X on it you get a screen with icons to allow you to select >booting from OS 9.x or OS X > >my 2 ˘ > >Ray Fleischmann - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:57:14 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Ryan wrote: >The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) Micheal, I have a dual 450 with two hard drives and I believe you need to install OSx with the hard drive set to ATA 0 for it to work. Don't remember where I read that to verify your problem, but I think you're on the right track. Ok, now how do I make sure that my hard drive is on ATA 0, and is configured as 'MASTER'... ? thanks michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:05:00 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac michael said : >>The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) BTW: System profiler says that the drive is a Quantum FireballP LM30.0 and the driver version is 3.2.6 IT also says that it is on ATA 2, ID = 1 But when I look inside the G4 case, the hard drive is clearly on the ATA connector, and the DVD-ROM is on the IDE connector (as written on the motherboard) feeling very stupid...as a hardware developer, I really wish I had better documentation.... Anyone know what I need to do to put the hard drive on ATA 0 ??? hoping that this 'stone' passes soon :-) michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:17:32 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac on 7/23/01 11:57 AM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > Ok, now how do I make sure that my hard drive is on ATA 0, > and is configured as 'MASTER'... ? In order for the system to work there has to be a Master. You can't have just a slave. To change them you have to adjust the jumpers and that is different on each manufacturer. If you have 2 drives then one is probably the Master and the other is the slave. I assume that it was running fine before you got it. I don't want to jump over any thing but I am assuming that you can "see" the HD's with a disk utility? Yes? If so then that will give you the master/slave configuration. If one says Master then you don't need to do anything like pull it and change jumpers. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:26:34 -0500 From: Ryan McElroy Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac Actually looking at my system profiler I see booth my hard drives are set to ATA 2. The "Master" hard drive is on ID 0 and the slave drive is ID 1. I remember now that I was only able to install OSX with a drive on ID 0. Sorry for the misinformation. I will look for some real info and let you know if I find any. Ryan >Ryan wrote: >>The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) > >Micheal, I have a dual 450 with two hard drives and I believe you >need to install OSx with the hard drive set to ATA 0 for it to work. >Don't remember where I read that to verify your problem, but I think >you're on the right track. > >Ok, now how do I make sure that my hard drive is on ATA 0, >and is configured as 'MASTER'... ? > >thanks >michael - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:55:37 -0400 From: Bob Vennerbeck Subject: Mac ATA bus topology 101 Michael - I took a look inside two G4's here at school and made some notes that I hope will help. From Apple System Profiler report: Each of our G4's has a CD-ROM on "internal ATA" 0 as "ID #0", and an internal ZIP on "internal ATA" 0 as "ID #1"; (we also have SCSI cards and internal SCSI hard drives as boot drives) By visual inspection - the 80 pin cable from the CD and ZIP runs to a 40 pin header header on the front of the circuit board, labeled "IDE" where I can see it, although the rest of the header is obscured by processor heat sink, so this must be ATA bus 0. There is another 40 pin header on the bottom edge of the circuit board which is clearly labeled "Ultra ATA" - there is nothing attached to it in our machines, so nothing gets reported by Apple System Profiler, and I can't say what the bus is reported as, but would suspect "internal ATA 1" - in one other G4 straight from the factory that I had my mitts in, that was where the internal boot ATA hard drive was connected, and where we added another ATA drive as slave. There can be only two devices on a given ATA bus - one is Master, and the other Slave - PC folks know this better than us, since it's how every PC is set up - Apple came late to the ATA bus, and it's early implementations (beige G3 RevA) were non-standard. There are jumpers on the back of the ATA hard drive (and CD, and ZIP) next to the 40 pin ATA connector - very similar to SCSI ID jumpers - and there is almost always a label on the drive, or embossing on the connector indicated "MR", "SL" and "CS" for Master, Slave, and Cable Select. When there is only one drive present on an ATA bus, the jumper setting is sometimes irrelevant, and may have been left to the "CS" setting that they are often shipped from the hard drive plantation set to. If so, set it to Master and try again. I don't know if the relative positions of Master and Slave on the cable are important - but the permutations to test are limited..... Although the ways of Apple are mysterious, I don't think they have swapped around the entire internal layout of their machines just as they move toward OS X, so I suspect that the hard drive on the 2nd ATA bus, labeled "Ultra ATA", and logically named internal ATA 1 (or 2?) is meant to be OK for OS X installation and booting. However, f you don't mind dismantling stuff....you might experiment with moving the HD to internal bus 0 and the CD/DVD and (do you have a zip?) to the "ultra ata" bus - the 40 wire and 80 wire ATA cables are fundamentally interchangeable, even though putting an 80 wire ribbon into a 40 pin connector seems a little strange. There are probably speed and interference issues at play, but as an experiment it should function. Actually, it starts to make sense - the slow data rates from CD, DVD, zip etc don't need the "Ultra ATA" bus capabilities, so they are connected to a simpler (slower?) earlier bus version known as IDE. Your big whomping fast hard drive wants lots of throughput, so it is meant to connect to the "Ultra ATA". OK folks - I'm talking through my hat here, so let me know (gently) where I'm all screwed up... michael wrote: > > Ryan wrote: > >The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) > > Micheal, I have a dual 450 with two hard drives and I believe you > need to install OSx with the hard drive set to ATA 0 for it to work. > Don't remember where I read that to verify your problem, but I think > you're on the right track. > > Ok, now how do I make sure that my hard drive is on ATA 0, > and is configured as 'MASTER'... ? > > thanks > michael - -- Bob VENNERBECK = ; RI School of Design Film/Video Tech 2 College Street, Providence, Rhode Island 02903-2784 USA (401) 454-6236 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:39:56 -0400 From: michael Subject: The Mac is X'd Hello Folks, The problem was that the disk drive was set to 'slave' and not 'master'. I am now happy, back running on the 9.1 partition, and at least now I can test out X when I need. Thank you very much for all your help. Now back to our regularly scheduled problems :-) michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Sutherland Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? What's the problem with low wattage bulbs? Is this also a problem for CF bulbs? greg On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, michael wrote: > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:19:52 -0400 > From: michael > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? > > 323 said : > >It is a brand new bulb, plus, the x-10 is in the wall switch (not the > >socket). > > Hello Mike, > > What is the wattage of the bulb ? > If it is lower than 60 watts, that may be the problem. > Try a higher wattage bulb to check. > > michael > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:12:57 -0500 From: HD Bolch Subject: Re: X'ing the Mac >michael said : > >>The Drive is on ATA 2, the DVD-ROM is on ATA 0 (Izzat a problem ?) > >BTW: System profiler says that the drive is a Quantum FireballP LM30.0 >and the driver version is 3.2.6 > >IT also says that it is on ATA 2, ID = 1 > AHA! System Profiler _should_ say "Internal ATA 1 ID = 0" ! THAT's where you have to install X. - -HD "Religion is an insult to human dignity," Nobel laureate Stephen Weinberg said in an address to the American Association for the Advancement of Science. "With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:13:56 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: The Mac is X'd on 7/23/01 1:39 PM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > The problem was that the disk drive was set to 'slave' and not 'master'. > > I am now happy, back running on the 9.1 partition, and at least > now I can test out X when I need. > > Thank you very much for all your help. > > Now back to our regularly scheduled problems :-) It's nice that we can help you out for once. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:30:20 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: Re: The Mac is X'd last comments. My grandmother had a saying "A parent can support 7 children, but 7 children can't support one parent." So to put it another way. "Michael can support 3000 users, but it takes 3000 users to support Michael." Maybe that didn't come out just right but I thing all of you know what I mean. :-) my 2 ˘ Ray Fleischmann > From: Coleman > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:13:56 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: The Mac is X'd > > on 7/23/01 1:39 PM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > >> The problem was that the disk drive was set to 'slave' and not 'master'. >> >> I am now happy, back running on the 9.1 partition, and at least >> now I can test out X when I need. >> >> Thank you very much for all your help. >> >> Now back to our regularly scheduled problems :-) > > It's nice that we can help you out for once. > > > Chuck Coleman > coleman@teleport.com > NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:14:41 -0400 From: Ray Fleischmann Subject: remember .pict NOT loading. Michael, A few week ago I said that 3.65 would NOT load my .pict view. Guess what. I forgot to UP the memory from 1024/512 I now have it set for 4meg and all is picture purrrrrfect. ;-) Do you think it's time you up'd the defaults???????? Ray Fleischmann > From: michael > Reply-To: xtensionlist@shed.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:39:56 -0400 > To: > Subject: The Mac is X'd > > > Hello Folks, > > The problem was that the disk drive was set to 'slave' and not 'master'. > > I am now happy, back running on the 9.1 partition, and at least > now I can test out X when I need. > > Thank you very much for all your help. > > Now back to our regularly scheduled problems :-) > michael > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:40:35 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: The Mac is X'd last comments. Ray said : >So to put it another way. "Michael can support 3000 users, but it takes 3000 >users to support Michael." >Maybe that didn't come out just right but I thing all of you know what I >mean. :-) No, or rather yes... that's the way I feel sometimes :-) Supporting this group is not just easy, it's a never ending source of enjoyment. And in regard to your next post regarding the PICT files not loading, it's down right entertaining ... :-) michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:42:31 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: remember .pict NOT loading. Ray said : >Michael, > A few week ago I said that 3.65 would NOT load my .pict view. Guess what. >I forgot to UP the memory from 1024/512 I now have it set for 4meg and all >is picture purrrrrfect. ;-) > Do you think it's time you up'd the defaults???????? Naaah, just time to up the size of the Font that I use for posting :-) How nice to come out of the fog of this OS X thing and find that you've solved that problem :-) michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:46:25 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? Greg said : >What's the problem with low wattage bulbs? Is this also a problem for CF >bulbs? greg Hi Greg, I'm not sure just what the limit is, but it is known that DIMMER modules just don't work reliably unless there is a 'significant' current drain. I've seen 40 watt bulbs work reliably, and yet other 60 watters don't. I'm not sure about the Compact Flourescents... can they be dimmed ??? It's not a worry with appliance modules. michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:44:28 -0400 From: James Sentman Subject: Pseudo or global? Hi All, As my system gets more sophisticated and I need to check more things to know what action to perform I find that sometimes I'm using pseudo units to store the values and sometimes I'm using global properties in the attachments script. The only real value to using one over the other that I can think of initially is that the parameters in the attachments do not seem to be available to regular unit scripts or global scripts when they are run. Is this true? Where is it easier to store a boolean kind of thing like "if GoneToBed then" kind of information? Can a pseudo be used for boolean logic like that? What do people use pseudo's for as opposed to parameters? Thanks, James - -- _________________________________________________________________________ James Sentman http://www.sentman.com Enterprise server monitoring with: http://whistleblower.sentman.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:00:20 -0400 From: Philip Pedersen Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? Of course, if you add the neutral wire to the switches, this isn't a problem, but then you need neutral in the box. Phil >Greg said : >>What's the problem with low wattage bulbs? Is this also a problem for CF >>bulbs? greg > >Hi Greg, > >I'm not sure just what the limit is, but it is known that DIMMER modules >just don't work reliably unless there is a 'significant' current drain. > >I've seen 40 watt bulbs work reliably, and yet other 60 watters don't. > >I'm not sure about the Compact Flourescents... can they be dimmed ??? >It's not a worry with appliance modules. > >michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:49:40 -0400 From: michael Subject: Re: Pseudo or global? James said : >Where is it easier to store a boolean kind of thing like "if >GoneToBed then" kind of information? Can a pseudo be used for boolean >logic like that? What do people use pseudo's for as opposed to >parameters? Hi James, Actually this is a good subject. Since we have a couple of the AppleScript developers lurking here, it might be a good idea to ask them what is the best technique for using 'global' properties. But yes you can use 'pseudo' units as boolean flags. I use them extensively for things like 'gone to bed' or 'gone' I like them particularly because they fit into the scheme of all other 'units', and can be gathered into lists and tested. And scripts can be attached to them... turns them into something like an 'object'... ? michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:18:00 -0700 From: Coleman Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? on 7/23/01 5:46 PM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > I'm not sure about the Compact Flourescents... can they be dimmed ??? I have many CF's that dim. Just make sure that you use the CF's that are made for dimming. Most of them WILL NOT dim. They don't work well at low voltages but they do well at 50% or better. Don't use the X10 wall modules cause they flicker. Use Leviton which is a better switch no mater what you use it for. Chuck Coleman coleman@teleport.com NEVER EVER use E-Trade for on line trading - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:38:03 -0500 From: Oman Sloan Subject: OSXtension This has probably been asked and answered, but ... has anyone successfully gotten Xtension to run in the Classic environment of OSX yet? Each time I try to launch the program, an alert message pops up stating "Unable to initialize communications ... terminating execution." This message appears when the program has just opened the image view of the house. What is it trying to do at this stage of launching? Anyone? Ferris? Michael? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:39:32 -0400 From: 323 Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? on 7/23/01 9:00 PM, Philip Pedersen at philip.pedersen@speakeasy.org wrote: >> I've seen 40 watt bulbs work reliably, and yet other 60 watters don't. I have tried 75, 60 and 40 watt bulbs. None of them are receiving the 'OFF' command. The 'ON' command is no problem, just the 'OFF'. - -- Mike Yrabedra President 323 Enterprises Home of The MacDock and The MacSurfshop [http://macdock.com] : [http://macsurfshop.com] VOICE: 770.382.1195 FAX: 1.877.581.2563 IM : myrabedra _______________________________________________________________________ "in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths." Proverbs 3:6 NIV - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:46:23 -0400 From: James Sentman Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? >on 7/23/01 5:46 PM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > > > I'm not sure about the Compact Flourescents... can they be dimmed ??? Though I didn't dim it, I did use a regular lamp module to turn on and off a CF light. It had no problem turning it on and off. I never tried dimming it as I've seen the ballasts in these things literally smoke and burn out before when they were just running without the help of any X10 stuff! The first set of CF's I bought from 'Lights of America' were great and I'm still using 5 of them almost 3 years later. A few months after I bought the first batch I bought 3 or 4 more and they all burned out within a few months. At one point I actually saw the fixture fill with smoke as the light went out. So quality control is a problem for these people. I do remember a post here recently where someone, sorry dont remember who, remarked that even all the way on these modules were still cutting up the AC so it may not be a good idea. When they screw up the waveform even at full on that can cause overheating in the ballasts and probably all sorts of other fun things as well. But give it a try anyway;) It worked fine for me. - -James - -- _________________________________________________________________________ James Sentman http://www.sentman.com Enterprise server monitoring with: http://whistleblower.sentman.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:49:24 -0700 From: Robert Ladle Subject: Re: Pseudo or global? Hi James - I use quite a few pseudos to store the data from my Davis weather station updated every half hour. Then scripts check for a value and act. (If outdoor temp is >72 then turn on the greenhouse fans, etc.). I trigger a pseudo, via a button, when I leave the house. If the pseudo is true then transfer the caller id's data from my home phone calls to my cell phone. I use them as counters. During the day, if the motion counter reaches 15 then turn on the kitchen spots because I must be making bread in that portion of the kitchen. If I'm just passing thru the kitchen or just getting a cup of coffee, I don't need the lights on. With a pseudo counter I track the number of times my greenhouse pump waters the plants. Knowing how long the pump runs, activated via a scheduled script, and how many gallons it pumps, I know about how much water has been used out of my 100 gallons of rain water (I catch the rain from the green house roof). I can pretty well determine how much water is left allowing for recent rain, weather station again, and then transfer backup water from the shop roof storage if needed ..... or I could just walk out and look, but as a HA user this is easier. :^). I use pseudos for grouping items. etc., etc. Robert - -- Pitchypaw's Pages http://members.home.net/pitchypaws > From: James Sentman > Can a pseudo be used for boolean > logic like that? What do people use pseudo's for as opposed to > parameters? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:21:13 -0700 From: Owen Rubin Subject: Possible Bug, Again... I think somewhere in the Mac OS X my question got completely lost. Oh, right, not a question, but possibly a bug. So let me post it again now that we all seem to be talking more about Xtension again. (By the way, Michael, as an ex-Apple employee, I have called several of my friends in the CPU group and OS group to see if they know of any issues like yours. More when I hear it.) OK, the possible bug (again): In testing, I set an existing module to RF, Pass-through, and Receive Only. If you do this and double click the module line, you get a log entry that says the ON command is blocked. OK, understood! When I was done, I unchecked those boxes and put it back the way it was. Then I double-clicked the module line and I saw a message that said it was SENDING an On command, but the light did not go on. Also, the little indicator on the left of the name did not go red. Clicking it again resulted in the same ON results. I had to QUIT Xtension and re-launch it again to get the item to start working again. Just quitting and restarting caused the problem to go away. To check which option might cause the problem, I checked ONLY Receive Only, closed the module window, double clicked the item, same result as above, it says a blocked ON command and does not change the state of the module Clicking again, same results. So I opened the item again, unchecked receive only, closed the window and once again, the module acted as if the receive only box was still checked except this time it says it is sending the ON, but nothing happens, and the status stays off. Quit and re-launch fixes the problem. Also, if the unit was ON when you set Receive Only, it will accept the OFF NOT as Blocked and turn off the module status. It does not send the OFF. Clicking again reports a BLOCKED ON. This seems inconsistent since the state can change from ON to OFF, but not the other way. In simple terms, if you click RECEIVE ONLY, then unclick it later, the program thinks its still clicked (sort of) until you quit and restart. And YES, I am using the latest version 3.5.6. Any ideas? - ------------------------- Owen R Rubin orubin@spies.com This space intentionally left blank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:26:48 -0700 From: Owen Rubin Subject: Re: 3rd Party RAM > on 7/23/01 8:14 AM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > >> Is it true that the Software Update function will tell me if any firmware >> needs to be updated ? > > It didn't do that for me. I had to get it word of mouth to even realize that > there was one out there for my PowerBook. > True for my G3 PowerBook and my G4 Desktop. I run update all the time, and I was not informed of FIRMWARE updates. Have others actually seen these updates? - -Owen- - ------------------------- Owen R Rubin orubin@spies.com This space intentionally left blank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:39:10 -0700 From: Owen Rubin Subject: Re: Won't receive OFF command? > on 7/23/01 5:46 PM, michael at michael@shed.com wrote: > >> I'm not sure about the Compact Flourescents... can they be dimmed ??? > > I have many CF's that dim. Just make sure that you use the CF's that are > made for dimming. Most of them WILL NOT dim. They don't work well at low > voltages but they do well at 50% or better. Don't use the X10 wall modules > cause they flicker. Use Leviton which is a better switch no mater what you > use it for. > I used several tricks here. For CF's that do not dim, they are plugged into Appliance modules. Only problem, if you get a small power change, the module sees a current draw and turns on. I fixed this by plugging a 4 watt night light into the module as well (2 way plug) and the lamp no longer turns on by itself. I bought several dimmable CFs and they work fine with wall lamp modules, but have problems with several version of the wall switches I have. In one fixture with two sockets, I put a normal CF in one socket, and a small 25 watt bulb in the other. The regular switch is running it just fine, and there is no noise or heat problem. Not sure of this is really OK to do, but adding a small incandescent seems to work. Just a few tricks that worked for me with CFs. - ------------------------- Owen R Rubin orubin@spies.com This space intentionally left blank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:58:57 -0700 From: Jack Stewart Subject: Lynx-10 PLC Michael, I am awaiting delivery of a Lynx-10 PLC. Am told it should be this week. While talking to tech support (Rick) at Marrick, he indicated that there is a serious incompatibility between Xtension and the PLC. He says that when operating in the pre-dim mode, the PLC will crash and require PC access to its registers to restore it to working condition. Can you offer any comments on this. It has me afraid to use the PLC since I will have it out in the "booneys" with nothing but a Mac to support it. Thanks, Jack - -- Jack Stewart      Mrs Stewarts Piano Lessons - -- ------------------------------ End of XTension digest V1 #313 ******************************