Subject: XTension Discussion Digest - 04/29/00 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:00:01 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion List" To: "XTension Discussion List" XTension Discussion Digest - Saturday, April 29, 2000 Re: Whither HA ? by "Chad A Gard" Re: Whither HA ? by Re: Whither HA ? by "Chad A Gard" Re: Xclaim VR - special cable? by "jacks" Re: Interesting device by "Mike Menze" Re: Xclaim VR - special cable? by "Jeff Kandt" Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "Jeff Kandt" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "Barry Thistlethwaite" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "Jeff Kandt" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "Kevin Arnold" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "studioZee" Re: Chad's Post 4/28/00 (Whither HA?) by "Ben Talley" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by "Jeff Kandt" Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem by XTension application problem by "Mark Richman" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Whither HA ? From: "Chad A Gard" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:13:27 -0500 >Geesh!! Take breath already:) Lot of insight, stuff I've not really thought >of being capable of doing with HA. Sorry, I know it wasn't well organized, and was really long. Just a stream of conciousness thing. But I really think technologically we're not too far away from something simmilar being popular, and not terribly un-affordable. We're just short on imagination and motivation in the right place. Fellow central-hoosier, Chad Gard, CTS INCHASE: INdiana Chasers of Adverse and Severe wEather Website comming soon to http://www.inchase.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Whither HA ? From: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:41:47 EDT I didnt say it was unorganized, just long winded:) I would probably have to agree with you on the being popular part. My girlfriend is a perfect example. She has the typical attitude, "Why cant you just have a NORMAL light switch?" When the front porch lights go on and off at random, for no apparent reason, or when the bathroom light goes out while shes sitting on the toilet, its kind of hard to make her believe this stuff is Automation. But then again, hows that saying go, "If your Grandmather can't use it, it wasn't intallled correctly" Granted, I still have a lot of fine tuning to do, but that wont help random and stray x-10 signals for no apparent reason. Frank ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Whither HA ? From: "Chad A Gard" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:07:44 -0500 when the bathroom light goes out while shes sitting on >the toilet, its kind of hard to make her believe this stuff is Automation. Well, I would say that's automation, it's just not good automation. I would throw in a paraphrase from the Tao here, but the laws of entropy have overtaken my house, and I only have a vague notion of what the verse was... Something like: automation is automation good automation is automatic bad automation is automatic automatic is automatic I try to draw a line between "automatic" and "remote controlled". Timed events, things that respond to motion and proximity sensors, those are automatic. If I have to use a palm pad, it's remote control - and just another thing to loose in the couch. >But then again, hows that saying go, "If your Grandmather can't use it, it >wasn't intallled correctly" I like that a lot. I'll have to take that to work next time we have an intranet redesign meeting... Chad Gard, CTS INCHASE: INdiana Chasers of Adverse and Severe wEather Website comming soon to http://www.inchase.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Xclaim VR - special cable? From: "jacks" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:59:10 -0700 On 4/28/00 at 8:27 PM, jeff@scrollbar.com (Jeff Kandt) wrote: > I just bought an ATI Xclaim VR video card on eBay but it looks like > it's missing a piece. > > The manual talks about a "video out adapter" which appears to plug > into the (proprietary?) video-out jack on the card and then splits > into two output cables: a composite and an S-video. At first glance, > the (proprietary?) jack looked like an S-video, but the pins are in a > different configuration: the post is in the middle and the seven pins > are arranged in a circle around it. > > Am I going to have to beg one of these parts from ATI customer > support, or is it possible I could find one tomorrow at my local > Radio Shack? > > (This is threatening to spoil my weekend project. ;-) > > TIA, > > Jeff I recently had an identical experince. It is not a standard s-video cable and you will have to either make it yourself (I don't recommend) or buy it from ATI customer service. If you need more info email off-list and I can probably dig it up for you. It is not cheap and ATI will not tell you the pinouts. I was unable to find any other source. Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Interesting device From: "Mike Menze" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:20:30 -0500 (CDT) Chuck, This sounds VERY interesting.. please fill us in after the shoot.. Mike Mike Menze email: felix@mcs.com Webbed at: http://www.mcs.com/~felix/ I stole this random sig generator from my wife, but she doesn't mind. She'd never hack in to my account and change the quotes, or anything. Really. On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Chuck Coleman wrote: > I am going to be involved in an instructional video for HP (Agilent > division) that is promoting their new AICD (Automatic Implantable Cardiac > Defibrillator). This is a device that is implanted in people with unstable > cardiac rhythms and will give a shock directly to the heart starting at > around 5 joules for ventricular tachacardia (V-tach) and ventricular > fibrillation (V-fib). It will repeat the shock as long as the heart rhythm > meets the criteria for which it is programmed and is quite painful (which is > why I give lots of pain meds and amnesiacs so they won't remember the > incident) > > While this is not news since these devices have been around for many years > and I have seen many of them in action. The new twist to the HP AICD is that > it sends out a signal to the web that can be accessed by a PDA that will be > carried by Paramedics. They will have all the information on the patient and > the current cardiac rhythm before they arrive and will be able to treat the > patient quicker than the current modalities. > > I won't be able to see the equipment till next Friday but this is > interesting and am curious to see how this is transmitted to the web. The > preliminary information I have is that it is connected to some sort of radio > transceiver similar to the HA transceivers. > > I can see it now. You could check in on the web site of your friend and hit > the shock button as a practical joke (tongue in cheek). > > If you are interested I will fill you in on the details after the shoot. > > Chuck > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > This message brought to you with the BeeHive List Server > Subscription changes: < http://www.bzzzzzz.com/lists/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Xclaim VR - special cable? From: "Jeff Kandt" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:31:19 -0400 At 8:59 AM -0700 4/29/00, you wrote: >On 4/28/00 at 8:27 PM, jeff@scrollbar.com (Jeff Kandt) wrote: > > > I just bought an ATI Xclaim VR video card on eBay but it looks like > > it's missing a piece... > >I recently had an identical experince. It is not a standard s-video >cable and you will have to either make it yourself (I don't >recommend) or buy it from ATI customer service. If you need more >info email off-list and I can probably dig it up for you. It is not >cheap and ATI will not tell you the pinouts. I was unable to find >any other source. >Jack Thanks Jack, I've just emailed ATI support. -Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |jeff@scrollbar.com | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"] | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "Jeff Kandt" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:42:04 -0400 I'm having a problem getting the "fire zephir command" OSAX to work from a remote Mac. This Xtension script... tell application "Eudora Pro" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" connect with checking end tell ..works fine, but... tell application "Finder" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" fire zephire command "1" of component "Emerson_EVS4000_Video_Switch" end tell ...results in the following error: Error -1708 - Finder got an error: "1" doesn't understand the fire zephir command message. Is there something obvious I'm missing? The exact same "fire zephir command" statement (same command name, same component name) works fine when run on the local (G3 Minitower) machine without the "Tell"... TIA! -Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |jeff@scrollbar.com | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"] | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "Barry Thistlethwaite" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:56:59 -0500 Jeff, If the second command in your email was cut-and-pasted, check the spelling of "zephir". In the second script, you have an extra "e" on the end--"zephire". --Barry At 1:42 PM -0400 4/29/00, Jeff Kandt wrote: >I'm having a problem getting the "fire zephir command" OSAX to work >from a remote Mac. > >This Xtension script... > >tell application "Eudora Pro" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" > connect with checking >end tell > > >..works fine, but... > > >tell application "Finder" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" > fire zephire command "1" of component "Emerson_EVS4000_Video_Switch" >end tell > >...results in the following error: > > Error -1708 - Finder got an error: "1" doesn't understand the > fire zephir command message. > > >Is there something obvious I'm missing? The exact same "fire zephir >command" statement (same command name, same component name) works >fine when run on the local (G3 Minitower) machine without the >"Tell"... > >TIA! > >-Jeff >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >|Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | >|jeff@scrollbar.com | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | >|[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CE51904 | >| or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"] | >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ > This message brought to you with the BeeHive List Server > Subscription changes: < http://www.bzzzzzz.com/lists/ > Barry Thistlethwaite | Man's mind, stretched to a new idea, Tech Writer for Hire | never goes back to its original dimension. bthis@airmail.net | --Oliver Wendell Holmes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "Jeff Kandt" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:13:52 -0400 On or about 12:56 PM -0500 4/29/00, Barry Thistlethwaite wrote: >Jeff, > >If the second command in your email was cut-and-pasted, check the >spelling of "zephir". In the second script, you have an extra "e" on >the end--"zephire". > > --Barry Oops, no that wasn't pasted in; it was a typo just in the email. I wish it were that easy... -Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |jeff@scrollbar.com | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"] | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "Kevin Arnold" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:14:34 -0700 I think you need to tell the application "ZephIR!" to fire the command, not the finder. Here is what I use (which requires a copy of the ZephIR! app to be on the local machine as well, not sure if this is the most effcient as I'm a novice AppleScripter but it works): set zephirApp to application "ZephIR!" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" using terms from application "ZephIR!" tell zephirApp fire zephir command "1" of component "Emerson_EVS4000_Video_Switch" end tell end using terms from --Kevin Arnold --Senior Software Engineer --Network Services Location (NSL) Technical Lead, --Service Location Protocol (SLP) products, --NetFinder, and Personal NetFinder products --Service Discovery Group, --Apple Computer > From: Jeff Kandt > Reply-To: "XTension Discussion List" > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:42:04 -0400 > To: Xtension Discusssion > Subject: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem > > tell application "Finder" of machine "Jeff's G3 Minitower" > fire zephire command "1" of component "Emerson_EVS4000_Video_Switch" > end tell > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "studioZee" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:09:59 -0600 Hi, To send a "fire zephir command" to a remote machine you 1) must have Applescript and the "fire zephir command" osax installed on the remote machine 2) program linking must be turned on with access given (thru a password or guest access) AND 3) the finder on that machine is scriptable ( i think 7.6 or greater) tell application "finder" of machine "myOtherMac" fire zephir command "mute" of component "receiver" end tell or send it to an application that can handle it as applescript tell application "hypercard" of machine "myOtherMac" fire zephir command "mute" of component "receiver" end tell tell application "Zephir!" of machine "myOtherMac" fire zephir command "mute" of component "receiver" end tell Note that in these latter cases the programs do nothing other than letting the applescript line pass through them to be executed by the osax. Also it helps to have "AutoGuest init" installed on the local machine to avoid the connection dialog This is on our list of things to get a tech note on... john -- studioZee http://www.thezephir.com ====================================================== for the best in Macintosh infrared control of your home theatre try the Zephir! by studioZee ====================================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Chad's Post 4/28/00 (Whither HA?) From: "Ben Talley" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:15:56 -0400 I am not going to repeat Chad's post. I'm sure you all can refer to it. Chad is at least 2 light years ahead of me in the HA universe, so I'm not certain that my musings will be either pertinent or cogent, but WTH here goes anyway. After reading his post it occurred to me that the kernel of what he describes (wishes for?) exists in XTension. (All programmers on the list, please excuse my lack of knowledge and incorrect terminology.) In my limited exposure, XT is a means of Instructing, Executing, Recording, Reporting, & Archiving. Would it be very difficult to add "Learning" to that set? Rather than having to use AppleScript to INSTRUCT the system, could we introduce a learning mode whereby the instruction set is generated by user actions? The learning mode would have to be smart enough to detect and query any installed sensors (time, season, motion, heat, light, sound, moisture, voice response, etc.) and compare/record actions versus sensor status. A "correct me if I'm wrong" interrupt would be needed (as Chad suggests) and this could be done by having the program actually ask the user if they want the pattern set that way. Pausing to reflect on the above, some questions pop up. 1. I have to train my kids, my dogs, my cats, my neighbors, my boss, my employees, my coworkers - now I have to train my house too? 2. Would the benefits to Joe Homeowner outweigh the annoyances? 3. Would anyone but a tecnogeek be even remotely interested? 4. Could a hardware /software package be put together for under $1500 (new home) or $2500 (retrofit) and be marketed profitably ($ values arbitrary). Michael has done a lot to remove some of the complexities from basic HA with XTension. I have both PCs and Macs, and after looking over what was availabnle in both worlds, elected to go with XTension, because it held a better chance for expansion and flexibility. However, if it weren't for the fact that Xtension does most of the scripting grunt work, I would not have been interested. So, I guess I'm somewhere on the boob side of technogeekdom. >From my somewhat limited veiwpoint, Chad's vision is immediately doable. The technology exists. I suspect that the motivation does not. Michael seems to be motivated by a sense of accomplishment rather than any potential financial reward. Would that more of the world worked that way! Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your veiwpoint) our system of getting things done is primarily motivated by return on investment. It is a matter of demand and scale (the two economic factors that almost put Apple under). If there were a demand for 50 million biomed sensors that would assess your state of health as you walked in your front door, someone would be able to sell them for $10 a copy. But, the hardware and software to make them usable would have to exist. That's where Michael, Chad and all you others come in. Pioneers. Pioneering is not the easy road. It is gritty and full of frustration and frequently without any visible reward. I don't think pioneers go into their efforts with thoughts of great reward. They do it because it's there to be done, and they would like the satisfaction of doing it first and teaching the followers. As you pioneers build your systems and tweak and rewrite your software, word will spread. Demand from the followers will be generated by your successes. Chad's vision will come true, maybe sooner than we think. Ben ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: "Jeff Kandt" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:00:58 -0400 On or about 1:09 PM -0600 4/29/00, studioZee wrote: >To send a "fire zephir command" to a remote machine you > >1) must have Applescript and the "fire zephir command" osax installed on the >remote machine Yep. The 1.0b7 version of the osax which came with the 1.0 release. >2) program linking must be turned on with access given (thru a password or >guest access) Yep. Guest access with AutoGuest init installed. >AND > >3) the finder on that machine is scriptable ( i think 7.6 or greater) Yep. >tell application "finder" of machine "myOtherMac" > fire zephir command "mute" of component "receiver" >end tell This is exactly the syntax I was attempting. Does the error message... Error -1708 - Finder got an error: "1" doesn't understand the fire zephir command message." ...mean anything to you? >or send it to an application that can handle it as applescript > >[snip] >tell application "Zephir!" of machine "myOtherMac" > fire zephir command "mute" of component "receiver" >end tell I tried this, too, but got the same error as above, except it begins "Zephir! got an error", etc... >This is on our list of things to get a tech note on... BTW, I tried to read the "Scripting: A quick introduction" page at http://www.thezephir.com/tech/scripting/scriptingf.htm last night, but it looks like an empty page on IE5 Mac. Same thing with the downloadf.html page. I finally thought to switch to Netscape 4.5 where it rendered fine. Are you aware of this incompatibility with IE5? (Or is it just me?) Thanks John, -Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |jeff@scrollbar.com | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"] | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Zehpir: remote "fire zephir command" problem From: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:12:51 -0400 Hi Folks, It occurs to me that this might be a conflict of "aete"s... Maybe there's some Scripting Addition (OSAX) or application with an 'aete' (scripting dictionary), that has similar verbs ??? maybe ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: XTension application problem From: "Mark Richman" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:15:26 -0700 Just received my serialized copy of XTension and am eager to get started, but I'm having a problem with the application. The demo application runs perfectly. However, the copy I received via email either quits with a type 1 error, or it gives an error saying "Unable to create one or more windows" followed by a whole bunch of garbage characters. This happened on my control Mac which initially had 8.1 on it. I then upgraded to 8.6 and get the same error with no extensions loaded except for Applescript and the serial tool. Interestingly, the application runs fine on my other box--a beige G3 running OS9. Anyone have any suggestions? Mark Richman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of XTension Discussion Digest _____________________________________________________________________ This message brought to you with the BeeHive List Server Subscription changes: < http://www.bzzzzzz.com/lists/ >