Subject: Digest for 7/16/98 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:45:14 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by lists@matterform.com (Michael Herrick) -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by "Jerry Prsha" -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by Steve Fyfe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Jul 1998 08:04:11 -0700 From: lists@matterform.com (Michael Herrick) Subject: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers Hi everyone. I've just gotten started with Xtension and a couple of switches. I am trying not to let it take over my life but it's not easy. I shudder to think what might happen if I didn't have a wife to tell me to go to bed. Anyway, the software is great and I'm having no difficulty with it so far. However, I have some hardware questions I'd like to put out there. I'm looking for a device that plugs into a phone line and sends an X10 ON command when I pick the phone up and an OFF when I hang it up again. I've seen a thingy that plugs into a phone line and turns on a red LED when the phone is off hook. I suppose this could be hacked to a PowerFlash. In my copious spare time. Any off-the-shelf solutions? I'm playing around with wireless speakers, using appliance modules to control what rooms get the sound. My main beef is the click the appliance module makes when turning on and off. Does the lamp module click like that too? Could I use a lamp module on a speaker (15 volt AC adapter) without damaging the speaker or the module? And speaking of noise, the speaker itself makes a pretty loud click or thump when it is first turned on. Any way around that? How about dimming the speaker gradually from 0 to 100? Or would that fry it? That reminds me... any way to make my neighbor's stereo explode when it goes above 90dB? I'd pay a lot for that capability, especially if it could generate shrapnel. Thanks to everyone on the list. I've already learned a lot by reading the archives and I look forward to learning more. - --Michael - ------------------ MIME Information follows ------------------ - --==_Boundary-1_== Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<<<< See above "Message Body" >>>>>> - --==_Boundary-1_==-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Jul 1998 08:09:44 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers - ->That reminds me... any way to make my neighbor's stereo explode when it goes above 90dB? I'd pay a lot for that capability, especially if it could generate shrapnel. Yes.. look in the XTension manual under "gas leak." The whole house would be schrapnel. Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Jul 1998 09:49:29 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers Michael Herrick said on 7/16/98 11:03 AM >I'm looking for a device that plugs into a phone line and sends an X10 ON >command when I pick the phone up and an OFF when I hang it up again. I've >seen a thingy that plugs into a phone line and turns on a red LED when >the phone is off hook. I suppose this could be hacked to a PowerFlash. In >my copious spare time. Any off-the-shelf solutions? Since you are reading the archives, check them for messages related to detecting phone usage. There were several suggestions made on this list around March 2 and 3 of this year. Most were for cheap ways to hack your own solution rather than off-the-shelf, but still worth a look. If you can't find the messages then let me know - I archived a copy of most of them. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/17/98 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:01:58 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by Chuck Shotton -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> AC adaptors and Dimmers by michael@shed.com -> Re: AC adaptors and Dimmers by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by Andy Montag -> new Xtension? by Phil Pedersen -> dim not triggering script by Guy K Hillyer -> Connecting Macs by Wedge@mindless.com -> detecting power outage by Guy K Hillyer -> Re: dim not triggering script by michael@shed.com -> Re: AC adaptors and Dimmers by michael@shed.com -> Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers by michael@shed.com -> Re: dim not triggering script by Guy K Hillyer -> Re: new Xtension? by michael@shed.com -> Re: dim not triggering script by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: new Xtension? by Phil Pedersen -> Remove Scheduled Event by joe -> Re: detecting power outage by Guy K Hillyer -> Dims and the single LynX by michael@shed.com -> on this day by michael@shed.com -> Just a Test by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 02:21:23 -0700 From: Chuck Shotton Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers >I'm playing around with wireless speakers, using appliance modules to control >what rooms get the sound. My main beef is the click the appliance module makes >when turning on and off. Does the lamp module click like that too? Could I use >a lamp module on a speaker (15 volt AC adapter) without damaging the speaker >or the module? And speaking of noise, the speaker itself makes a pretty loud >click or thump when it is first turned on. Any way around that? How about >dimming the speaker gradually from 0 to 100? Or would that fry it? I fried quite a few A/C adapters before it dawned on me that using them with lamp modules is a horribly bad idea. In their stock form, lamp modules draw a tiny bit of current and have circuitry to sense when the "lamp" is turned on manually, so they can power up instead of having to accept a remote X10 command to turn on. This is what ultimately kills the A/C adapters. The adapters sit there feeding on this tiny bit of current, trying to turn it into a usable voltage for the device they are powering and quickly cook themselves. The short answer is never use lamp modules for A/C adapters. The longer answer is a guess. But I'd guess if you performed the common modification of removing the local sense circuitry, you'd also eliminate the current trickle that fries A/C adapters and lamp modules would work fine. On your other subject of sensing off-hook telephones. If you really want to know when someone is on the phone, your PowerFlash hack sounds like a good one. If you're thinking of using that to signal XTension when someone is in a particular room, you should just drop the bucks for a Leviton phone transponder. It lets you use any touchtone phone as a X10 controller that can send all the X10 house and unit codes. It listens to the local phones as well as incoming calls. A cordless phone with speed dial becomes an awesome X10 remote. - --_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Chuck Shotton BIAP Systems, Inc. cshotton@biap.com http://www.biap.com/ "Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 02:51:00 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers Michael Herrick wrote on Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:03:26 -0600: > I'm looking for a device that plugs into a phone line and sends an X10 ON command when I pick > the phone up and an OFF when I hang it up again. I've seen a thingy that plugs into a phone > line and turns on a red LED when the phone is off hook. I suppose this could be hacked to a > PowerFlash. Steve Fyfe wrote on Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:49:05 -0400: > There were several suggestions made on this list > around March 2 and 3 of this year. Most were for cheap ways to hack your > own solution rather than off-the-shelf, but still worth a look. Could be that Steve reminds a discussion on the subject that we had on the neighbouring ADB_IO_Discussion@list. Here is the question and the simple solution I proposed which can be easily adapted to your case (see below). _________________________________________________________________________________________ >From ADB_IO_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Fri Dec 19 18:32 MET 1997 Return-Path: Subject: Monitor phone lines I have an ADBIO. I got it to play with, and it isn't doing anything right now. I have XTension, and I've recently set it up to give me some status info (via Mac speech) every hour. Problem is, when I'm on the phone, it's annoying. So, I thought the ADBIO would be a nice interface for this. I have three phone lines, and I should monitor all three. I don't need to log activity, just run a test once an hour, and if a line is in use, not speak. I can handle the scripting fine, but I'm not really an electronics person. I don't want to fry the ADBIO by just "trying it". I just hooked a cheap voltmeter to the line. Seems to be around 10v when inactive, and around 90v when active. Yikes. I didn't see a spike, just a fluctuation, when ringing. I'm embarrassed to say I wouldn't even know what kind of resistor (or other gizmo) to limit the voltage to whatever the ADBIO can deal with. So, any idea if this can be done, and what it would take to do it? Thanks, Mitch - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com _________________________________________________________________________________________ >From ADB_IO_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Sat Dec 20 09:10 MET 1997 Return-Path: From: "Sven U. Grenander" Subject: Re: Monitor phone lines Hi Mitch, Mitchell S. Cohen wrote: >I did run across a good possibility today. I was wandering through an >electronics shop looking for ideas. Something marvelously simple - an yes, any relay that would close at the desired voltage would seem to be what you need. If these folks have already done the work to set it up (to close a relay to turn on a tape deck) you ought to use their solution. Neat idea ! - -Sven _________________________________________________________________________________________ >From ADB_IO_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Sat Dec 20 17:54 MET 1997 Return-Path: From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Monitor phone lines Hello Mitchell, > I have an ADBIO. > So, I thought the ADBIO would be a nice interface for this. I have three > phone lines, and I should monitor all three. I don't need to log > activity, just run a test once an hour, and if a line is in use, not > speak. As Sven alrady pointed out what you need is just something like a relay. However it's probably not very easy (and could be expensive) to get a 90 V relay. Furthermore you must be sure that the relay will open when the line voltage drops to 10 V. I think a Vz = 12 - 15 V Zener diode is needed. In fact you can do exactly the same in a more flexible way with only 4 electronic components: 2 resistors, 1 Zener diode, 1 Optoisolator It will be even cheaper: not more than $5 - $10 > but at over $100 apiece, that's $300+ to monitor the three lines. > I'm hoping to do the whole thing for around $40 The opto-isolator is just to obtain a full isolation from the 90 V (it gives a 2500 V Electrical isolation). In principle such a device can be put inside the ADB I/O (Port A). However this would mean that the line between the phone and the ADB I/O will still be at 90 V. > I don't want to fry the ADBIO by just "trying it". If you don't fry the ADB I/O you could fry your fingers! :-0 I think it's better to put all components including the opto-isolator within the phone socket box, or in a box near. Thus the line will be at no more than 5 Volts and completely isolated from the phone line. Resistors have values to get about 2 mA in the opto-isolator.It's better (safer) to put 2 instead of 1 resistance for such a high voltage. Though power is not a problem, middle size resistances are preferable, again because of the voltage. The Zener diode ensures that no current will flow in the opto-isolator for voltages below Vz. It must be connected in the right way: you must measure Vz when the line is at 90 V. If you measure a very small voltage (1-2 V) it is in the wrong sense. The Input and the Output of the opto-isolator are also polarised.(pin numbers are given for the TIL 197 of Texas Instrument). You must measure not more than 1-2 V on the input of the opto-isolator. If you measure more it is in the wrong sense. The ouput of the opto-isolator can be connected to one of the Port B channel. This channel must be configured as "digital input" and the corresponding jumper must be set to "Pull-Up". Since the ouput of the opto-isolator is also polarised it must be connected as indicated on the drawing: Emitter (drawn as an arrow) to ground. If you have three independant lines, you will have to do that three times but you don't need to use three ADB I/O channels. You just put the three outputs of the opto-isolators in parallel, since they are working like closing contacts. Since I don't know wether an attached Graphic file is allowed on this List, I made a text drawing below: TO BE READABLE, THE DRAWING MUST BE LOOKED AT WITH A WINDOW WIDE ENOUGH (THIS LINE UNWRAPPED) ____________________________________ ______________________ I I I I I I ________________________ I I I + phone line I I I I I I I I I=I I I I I=I R I I I I=I I I I I I I I I I I I I=I I I I I=I R I I I I=I I I I I I I I I I I ADB I/O I IZI Zener I I I IZI I I I I I I I I I I I +---1----------+ I I I I 4------ I-------------------------- I 1 I I Opto-isol I I I Port B I I -> 3-------I-------------------------- I Gnd Pull-Up I +---2----------+ I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I _________________I________ I I I - phone line I I I ____________________________________I I_____________________I Phone socket R = 22 kOhms Z = Zener diode 12-15 V Opto-isolator = TIL 197 (Texas Instrument) or equivalent Good luck, Daniel Petitgrand _________________________________________________________________________________________ > I suppose this could be hacked to a PowerFlash. The simplest solution is to connect the PowerFlash in place of the optoisolator. use input A of the PowerFlash and connect the right polarities. Make sure that the current limited by the 2 resistors is enough (who knows that current?) to drive the powerFlash. R can be changed down to 2 x 4.7 kOhms (1 Watt) if necessary. Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 05:44:51 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: AC adaptors and Dimmers Chuck Shotton wrote: > The short answer is never use lamp modules for A/C adapters. Hi Folks, After reading this thread, I realize that there is something missing in the description of the 'A/C adaptor'.... There are AC to AC adaptors, and AC to DC ones... The AC to AC adaptors are simply 'transformers', and theoretically should be 'dimmable' just by reducing the input voltage. BUT the AC to DC models are tiny 'power supplies' which are designed to expect a certain input level (AC), and they don't like to run with less than 'line voltage' input. The Wireless Speakers can be powered by an adaptor, but the adaptor must output 6 volts DC, not AC. So, you must not try to use a common X-10 Lamp dimmer with them. I recently bought a 5-light set of 20W halogen 'under counter' lights. These are powered by a 'A/C adaptor' or 'wall wart'.. I wasn't expecting it, but written on the package was the declaration: "DIMMABLE" !!! When I examined the wall wart, it was marked with a burned-in label which also said 'dimmable'. Well, I couldn't resist, so I now have these lights mounted in a sort of 'pool table' light fixture over my desk. After about three weeks, I've not noticed any overheating of the wall wart, and it does DIM/BRI properly, AS LONG AS I don't turn it OFF ! You'll remember that we have discussed this little foible. If you don't have a 'sufficient' LOAD on a dimmer module, you can do everything with the lamp except turn it ON from OFF. It will brighten up from zero, and down to zero, but if you turn it OFF, you cannot remotely turn it ON again. Now I can make sure that I never send an OFF to the unit, but if we have a powerfailure, I find that I have to manually reset the Dimmer. This is not completely satisfying, but it hasn't been enough of a problem to make me change it out. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 06:42:18 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: AC adaptors and Dimmers Michael wrote: >Hi Folks, > >After reading this thread, I realize that there is something missing >in the description of the 'A/C adaptor'.... > >There are AC to AC adaptors, and AC to DC ones... After reading these messages, there may be something else that people don't realize. I don't remember a discussion anywhere other than maybe some of the technical X10 descriptions about what the dimming module does. It doesn't reduce the amplitude of the 60 Hz AC waveform, i.e., from 120VAC (which is a sinusoidal voltage with a peak amplitude of about 170V) to the same sinusoidal waveform with a lower peak. The triac in the dimming module chops out some of the AC waveform so that the RMS (root mean square) voltage is reduced, but the absolute amplitudes of what the triac lets through are the same as always. The resultant waveform getting to the load is only piece-wise sinusoidal, with some very large, very fast changes in amplitude. Note that all replacement dimmers for light switches work this way too. This plays hell with anything that expects a nice smooth (relatively) AC waveform. That's why dimmer modules don't work for most fans, which need a smooth transition from zero to peak and back down so that the magnetic fields in the motor expand and collapse nicely and don't cause the windings to move suddenly, causing the annoying hum. :^) AC to DC adapters try to take this strange waveform and convert it to the DC voltage they're supposed to. If the DC output is a simple diode rectifier with a capacitor filter and no regulated output, like the halogen lights that Michael has, then the DC voltage more or less follows the AC voltage up and down. I've had some halogen l;amps where the transformers have lasted for a while, but have finally burned out due to the additional heating caused by the non-sinusoidal AC input caused by the dimming module. The adaptors have to be made to take the dimming. If the DC output voltage is regulated, then the regulator has to work much harder with the lower input voltage to get the designed output voltage and can burn out pretty quickly. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 06:44:29 -0700 From: Andy Montag Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers You absolutely cannot plug your speakers ac adaptor into a lamp module. I melted one of my speakers power supplies foolishly trying this very thing. I'm guessing trying to dim the speakers power would have the same result. As for that annoying turn-on thump, I solved that by always leaving the speakers on and just sending them a signal when an announcement needs to be made. To do that I put a universal module in line with the audio signal coming out of the mac, giving me a way to silently "turn on and off" the speakers. While this doesn't allow for seperate turn ons for the various speakers in various rooms, it does keep every system beep and button push from being broadcast throuhgout the house. It also allows me to globally block announcements from a keychain remote when going to bed. Andy >From: lists@matterform.com (Michael Herrick) >Subject: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers > >I'm playing around with wireless speakers, using appliance modules to control >what rooms get the sound. My main beef is the click the appliance module makes >when turning on and off. Does the lamp module click like that too? Could I use >a lamp module on a speaker (15 volt AC adapter) without damaging the speaker >or the module? And speaking of noise, the speaker itself makes a pretty loud >click or thump when it is first turned on. Any way around that? How about >dimming the speaker gradually from 0 to 100? Or would that fry it? > >- --Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 06:45:14 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: new Xtension? I happened to look over at http://www.shed.com yesterday and saw that there was a version 2.0 out. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere on the list. Am I losing messages somewhere? Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 06:55:19 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: dim not triggering script Using XTension 1.7.5.5, I've created a unit with address H2, made it dimmable, and put this command in its "on" script: write log (future value) When I issue "H2 on" from a remote, the script logs the value 100, and when I issue "H2 off", the script logs 0 -- as expected. However, the script is apparently never triggered by "H2 dim". Is this normal? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:09:17 -0700 From: Wedge@mindless.com Subject: Connecting Macs Well, made the big jump - just bought a Mac IIsi for $40 thanks to the Coleman's tip they put on the list. Now I have to figure out what the best (reliable but cheap) way to connect two Macs is. I want to leave the IIsi as the always-running mac and access it with my PPC mac when I turn it on. Since serial ports will be at a premium and the PPC has built in Ethernet, I am looking (until someone gives me a better idea...) at ethernet cards for the IIsi. Any hints? Things NOT to do? Also, I will eventually need 4 serial ports for all the various crazy plans I have. What is the best method of expanding the ports? I have seen a few suggestions, but no direct discussion comparing various methods. (Is this something I should search the archives for first, before posting questions?) Any help would be greatly appreciated.... Semper Fi, James ps, Michael - I am starting to gain some sympathy for you. It is supposed to hit over 100 degrees today. Normally not a big deal, but I am in MONTANA for crying out loud - it is supposed to be nice and cool up here! - -- __ _ww _a+"D y#, _r^ # _*^ y` q0 0 a" W*` F ____ ; #^ Mw` __`. . 4-~~^^` _ _P ` /'^ `www=. , $ +F ` q K ] ^K` , #_ . ___ r ], _*.^ '.__dP^^~#, ,_ *, ^b / _ `` _F ] ]_ '___ ' ~~^ ] [ :` ]b_ ~k_ ,` yl #P `*a__ __a~ z~` #L _ ^------~^` ,/ ~-vww*"v_ _/` ^"q_ _x" __#my..___p/`mma____ _awP",`,^"-_"^`._ L L # _#0w_^_^,^r___...._ t [],"w ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:12:39 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: detecting power outage I have XTension running on an ancient powerbook so it doesn't notice when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to send an X-10 command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can know that it happened and take some action? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:14:11 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: dim not triggering script Hello Guy, I just tested this, and it does work. I assume that you are commanding the unit by its NAME and not its Address ? By address, the script will not run. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:18:32 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: AC adaptors and Dimmers Hi Folks, The A/C adaptor that I have on the halogen lights is an AC to AC adaptor, not a AC to DC... But it has been installed for only about 3 weeks. The longevity of this setup is still uncertain ... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:20:54 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Telephone off-hook detector and wireless speakers Andy Montag wrote: > > I put a universal module in line with the audio signal > coming out of the mac, giving me a way to silently "turn on and off" the > speakers. While this doesn't allow for seperate turn ons for the various > speakers in various rooms, it does keep every system beep and button push > from being broadcast throuhgout the house. It also allows me to globally > block announcements from a keychain remote when going to bed. Very nice solution ! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:23:01 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: Re: dim not triggering script michael@shed.com writes: > Hello Guy, > > I just tested this, and it does work. > > I assume that you are commanding the unit by its NAME > and not its Address ? By address, the script will not run. > > michael > > Oh -- I was issuing the DIM command from an X-10 remote. So this is not supposed to work? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:25:16 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: new Xtension? Hi Phil, I just wondered how long it would take ... :-) Actually, I was a bit timid about releasing this version because there are still many things that are to be done. but... "There comes a time in the life of every product, when it's time to shoot the engineer and build the product..." I am at this time building version 2.0.1 .... Guess what? It has a 'sizable script editor window' ! You're not losing messages, I'm just getting lazy... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 07:36:06 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: dim not triggering script Guy K Hillyer wrote: > Oh -- I was issuing the DIM command from an X-10 remote. So this is > not supposed to work? Hello Guy, Well, You got me on this one. There is a problem with the CM11 version .... For some reason, even though I can easily track DIMs sent from another controller (LynX/CM11), there is a problem tracking DIMs from one of the Mini-Controllers. I don't have a good handle on just what this is yet, but yes, it is broke, and I am working on it. So far I've been able to capture the data coming in from the CM11, but it looks identical to that coming from the mini-controller. in work michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 08:10:50 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: detecting power outage Hello Guy, > I have XTension running on an ancient powerbook so it doesn't notice > when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to send an X-10 > command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can know that > it happened and take some action? This is a conundrum. Since the CM11 is powered from the mains, when the power goes, so goes the CM11. AND, it doesn't send any kind of warning or notice, when it goes down or comes back up... On the other hand, the LynX, can be powered by a UPS, and it will announce when the TW523 has lost signal. This doesn't mean that it's impossible to detect this... But I bet that there are others here who have thought about it and can offer better suggestions than I. A few versions back, I added a couple of things which could help, but whenever I think about this, I get a headache. The problem is that you don't want to create a solution which is more bothersome than the problem. IE: you don't want to be 'pinging' the line all the time to see if the CM11 is still there. And, since most powerfails are of short duration (more of them), you would have to be testing pretty often, and that would create too much overhead. XTension will of course announce that it has lost contact, within 5 minutes of the failure, if the power is still off. One thing that would be nice would be if your UPS gave you a signal that said that the power failed. Another thing, if you're using a Laptop as the host. Does the MacOS offer any way of triggering an applet if it detects that the power has failed and we're running on battery? good fodder michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 08:49:28 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Guy K Hillyer said on 7/17/98 10:12 AM >I have XTension running on an ancient powerbook so it doesn't notice >when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to send an X-10 >command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can know that >it happened and take some action? Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a Powerflash unit. Set the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 11:47:43 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: new Xtension? Hi Michael, OK, I didn't think I missed any, but I wasn't sure. I installed it last night and after some minor weirdness, it seems to be working OK. I suspect throwing away the preferences file may be a good thing. I *did* notice that the scheduled events window was missing a horizontal scroll bar. I think it used to have one. Going from 1.XX to 2.XX usually means substantial upgrades that we might be expected to pay an upgrade fee for (unless it's windows where you pay all the time; both in cash and annoyance :^)). Have you thought about rolling things into a Pro version or some such so you could get a little bit larger revenue stream? Phil >Hi Phil, > >I just wondered how long it would take ... :-) > >Actually, I was a bit timid about releasing this version >because there are still many things that are to be done. > >but... > >"There comes a time in the life of every product, when it's > time to shoot the engineer and build the product..." > >I am at this time building version 2.0.1 .... > >Guess what? It has a 'sizable script editor window' ! > >You're not losing messages, I'm just getting lazy... >michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 11:55:46 -0700 From: joe Subject: Remove Scheduled Event Hi Michael, I think I may have found an error in the XTension manual. I am trying out some stuff written in the manual regarding removing created events. I copied the example shown in the manual to do the following: When I issue this command after creating several events called "Master BR Table Lamp": remove unit events for "Master BR Table Lamp" I get the following error: A " can't go after this identifier. But it works OK when I remove the word "for" such as: remove unit events "Master BR Table Lamp" I know this is a small thing but I got really mixed up when trying to learn how to do this. Perhaps you might correct it in the manual for the future when you get a moment. Is it possible that it IS correct in the manual and this problem is only peculiar to my set up? Joe Sonne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 12:21:23 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: Re: detecting power outage Steve Fyfe writes: > Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a Powerflash unit. Set > the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. Just the sort of idea I was looking for. I wonder if the CM11 would finish its power-up tasks soon enough to receive the command? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 12:22:07 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Dims and the single LynX Hi Folks, Note: this is a long and technical note. Summary: Manual DIM/BRI commands from a mini/maxi controller or a wireless one, are NOT reliable in a system where you have autonomous devices (sensors). This has nothing to do with XTension or your X-10 interface. The most Reliable method of controlling the level of your lamps is to never use direct DIM/BRI commands from manual controllers. Rather, use only indirect commands to XTension... IE: a 'pseudo unit' with ON and OFF scripts that correspond to Brighten and Dim of a real Lamp or group of lamps. - ------- ON script for "Control the Lamp" : if (value of "the lamp" < 91) then brighten "the lamp" to (value of "the lamp") + 10 else turn on "the Lamp" end if - ------------- OFF script for "Control the Lamp" : if (value of "the lamp" > 10) then dim "the lamp" to (value of "the lamp") - 10 else dim "the lamp" to 0 end if - ------------------------- End of simple summary....... michael I was afraid of this. I've just done some tests of the DIM/BRI commands as sent from the MiniController and the wireless RT504/RR501 set. Now you'd think that I would have done this already, but never before have I tried to do a comparison of the different X-10 transmitters, and the raw data that is actually sent to XTension from the interface, and the real effect that the commands have on a dimmable module... WOW! You would not believe the stuff that happens. There are so many different cases! Consistent results are so 'delicate' that I'm quite dismayed. If you recall, each X-10 command consists of two parts, the Address and the Function. These two elements are sent separately in time. The common X-10 receivers have logic that can remember whether it has been 'addressed', and when a 'function' is received, whether to respond or not. Thus, theoretically, you can send an address 'A4', and wait 1 hour and then send AON, and A4 will turn on... That is, in a perfekt world ? Within the world of normal X-10 devices, (ie: no computer or CM11), you would think that you can simply pick up a remote controller and hit the right button and make a lamp dim or brighten. Well, it don't work that way and as a matter of fact, I'm beginning to think that the only reliable way to dim/bri a lamp is via XTension and an interface, using only ON and OFF commands to indirectly control a dimmable unit/group ! I have both the Mini and Maxi controllers, as well as both types of wireless transceiver, and every type of wireless control, including the new TV/VCR models. In the past 4 hours, I have been able to create the most ridiculous nonsense of behavior from these simple devices. Without XTension or any interface sending anything... Yes, I can create an isolated system wherein there are no X-10 transmitters other than one, and I can see that in such a simple environment, it is possible to control your lights (dim/bri), without a problem. However, if you have motion sensors etc that can send signals autonomously, I find that things get screwed up very quickly. For example: I issue a manual command (mini-controller) to turn on A4. Then I press the DIM button. If I hold down the button, I see the lamp (A4) indeed dim. Then I release, and (it's not dim enough) push DIM again. Nothing happens.... I look in the Log Window of XTension (monitoring), and see that in that the Water Pump came on during this time and sent an ON command for a different housecode. Ok, I start trying different cases, and I find that it is so delicate a thing to get the Lamp module to respond to the manual commands that I'm amazed that the X-10 system has survived ! Part of the problem is that the manual controllers will not 're-address' a unit if you simply press a DIM/BRI button. They simply send out a "HOUSECODE/DIM" function code without sending the UNIT address again. They assume that any unit addresses have already been sent. (Normal use of the manual controllers requires that you indeed send an ON or OFF to a unit before you send DIM or BRI commands. But you may elect to press ON for more than one address in the same housecode, before you press the DIM...) Part of the problem is that the receivers will 'reset' their 'I'm addressed' flags whenever they see a X-10 command for a unit that is on another housecode. Without the autonomous events occuring, what kind of system do you have ? And, with all this variety, how can XTension possibly 'track' what is really happening to the dimmable units when you issue manual dim/bri's...? And to a lesser degree, ON/OFF's... This is not as simple a thing as I have described. I have a lot of captures of the raw data from three different 'receivers', as well as the behavior of the Lamp module. The 'captures' of the raw data are not done using XTension, but rather a simple applet which simply writes the data from the interface to a data file. In this way, I've been able to capture the data from the LynX, the CM11, and the 'twoway'. The LynX and the 'tw' are even more restricted in that they have to talk to the powerlines thru the TW523. The TW523 cannot 'track' DIM/BRI sequences, and thus will report only one or two dims out of three. Worse yet, I have found that the CM11 often reports falacious commands when it receives DIMs.....! I very carefully sent DIMs for A4, and very clearly in the raw data, the CM11 interspersed the A4 dims with those of a housecode "M"... I have pasted below an example 'capture', with interpretation. If you understand the CM11 protocol, you can see that I haven't been whistling 'Dixie' in the past when I have complained about the complexity of the CM11 protocol... I suggest that if there are any of you who have read to this point and are interested in helping me decide just how we should treat such things, that we should do it privately until we can get some consensus. michael - ------------------------------------------------- Lines are 'paired' First is the 'raw' data from the CM11 first byte is the count of chars following second is a 'mask' 1 = function, 0 = address/data position in mask is reverse of order of byte. Next is a terse interpretation of the meaning... 05 0A D1 D2 0A 03 H5 HON M4 MOFF 03 01 14 0D EDIM 13 03 01 14 03 EDIM 3 03 01 04 02 MDIM 02 03 01 14 03 EDIM 03 03 01 04 02 MDIM 02 03 01 14 03 EDIM 03 03 01 04 7B MDIM 123 03 01 14 03 EDIM 03 09 55 04 02 14 03 04 02 14 0D MDIM 02 EDIM 03 MDIM 02 EDIM 0D 03 01 14 0D EDIM 0D 02 00 1C E16 02 01 13 EOFF 03 01 14 03 EDIM 03 07 15 04 02 14 0D 14 03 MDIM 02 EDIM 0D EDIM 03 03 01 04 02 MDIM 02 09 55 14 03 04 02 14 03 04 02 EDIM 03 MDIM 02 EDIM 03 MDIM 02 03 01 14 03 EDIM 03 07 15 04 02 14 03 04 02 MDIM 02 EDIM 03 MDIM 02 ..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 14:37:01 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: on this day Hi Folks, Being both my birthday and that of XTension, I'm moved to comment on the "state of the home automation industry".... It's been two years now, and lots of new friends. But it's still a very poor market for home automation, and although we see new companies popping up, it's not growing at a rate that would be 'reasonable' given the infrastructure that exists. My personal approach to marketing is that I choose a market that has lots of pieces and parts, and make something that makes them go together better. Thus I can sort of 'tail-gate' their marketing. But lately, I've been so discouraged by the kind of attention that home automation has been getting. Although there have been earlier TV articles on the "Butler in a Box" system, which were equally bad, the most recent one was even more depressing because of all of the commentary from the participants to the effect that 'this just doesn't work'... Who's going to spend their time, dedicate a computer, and hundreds of dollars just to have the lights dim as you enter a room, or the lights come on as your visitors drive in....? For less than $50 you can do that... Some companies have tried to crack the HA nut with millions of bucks poured into advertising and glitz. For example the HAL2000. I really have great hopes for this product because they are spending a lot of bucks and really trying to make it simple with voice commands etc. But I have heard recently that at least one distributor of HAL2000 automatically sends a RMA form with each unit... It's not their fault, it's just that our expectations of such a system are far greater than the technology can give us at this time, for a price that is reasonable. We can easily utter commands in a clean environment to 'turn on the lights', but there are so many things that can cause problems when you try to do complex things like tell the home to remember to record Rosie O'Grady on Thursday at 4PM. For overy 30 years, we've been accustomed to Captain Kirk simply chatting with the ship's computer, and lately we've seen a holo-image of how one might appear. ( Couldn't you guess he'd be obnoxious ? :-) We can comprehend it, and we'd really like to have it, but we just ain't there yet. To some degree, we can enjoy some of the things that we can do with the Mac's speech recognition and voice output, but it will be another 10 to 20 years before this stuff is anything more than a 'dancing bear' when it comes to voice commands. Perhaps a little longer before we can chat with a 'holo-image'. Another element: There have been some beautiful homes written up in PHA, and Electronic House, and HomePro etc, but often the point of interest is the infrastructure and not what really happens day to day. Most often the center of interest is the control of lighting, and draperies and sprinkler systems. But always the most salient item is the setting of lights to some 'scene'... Now, I have many lights which are controlled, without some of which I would kill myself at night anymore, and I love the fact that my bathroom light doesn't give me a heart attack at night. But if that were all there were to my system, I would hardly be as enthusiastic as I am. Without the sensors all about that monitor the water pump, and the air conditioners and movement in all areas, this system would be just a toy. Without the fact that it tells me via voice messages that there is something to pay attention to, I would not be so attached to it. My system really seems like just another member of the household. It's a real thing that I anticipate and 'thank' for its services. It truly has taken on a life of its own. There are homes out there which would not qualify for pages in Better Homes & Gardens, and mine would be better fit in Coevolution Quarterly. But I hear daily from folks who have HA systems that would make Bill Gates take notice! I really believe that this thing will take off someday, and that we'll all chuckle at these awkward times... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Jul 1998 20:36:59 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Just a Test Just a test, I think the list server is down ??? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/18/98 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:44:34 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Claris Emailer Script by Steve Zimmerman -> List Problems by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by michael@shed.com -> Re: new Xtension? by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by Keelan Lightfoot -> Re: new Xtension? by Greg Satz -> Re: new Xtension? by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by michael@shed.com -> Re: Claris Emailer Script by mitchc -> Re: Remove Scheduled Event by Jim Schram -> Re: Claris Emailer Script by michael@shed.com -> Re: Remove Scheduled Event by michael@shed.com -> Talking Classic II by "Andre_Campeau" -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: detecting power outage by michael@shed.com -> Re: Talking Classic II by Steve Fyfe -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Talking Classic II by "Andre_Campeau" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 09:15:06 -0700 From: Steve Zimmerman Subject: Claris Emailer Script I would like to use Xtension to send a copy of the log to my email address at work if something needs attention. I have two questions that I am having trouble resolving: 1. Is there a way to save a copy of the XTension log to a file? 2. I've written a script for Claris Emailer that will send a message, but I haven't had any luck attaching a file. Can anyone give me some guidance? This is the script I am using to create the message: tell application "Claris Emailer" activate set bodyvar to "Test body." set addrVar to "szimmer@alleghenypower.com" set addrNameVar to "Steve Zimmerman" set subjectvar to "Test Subject " make new outgoing message with properties #194# {subject:subjectvar, content:bodyvar, scheduled:true, recipient:{{address:{address:addrVar, display name:addrNameVar}, recipient type:to recipient, delivery status:unsent}}} end tell thanks, Steve Zimmerman szimmer@nfis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 09:33:29 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: List Problems Hi Folks, For whatever reason, the XTension Discussion list server has been down for the past 24 hours, and it appears that it is now back... Thanks to the person who hit the button ... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 09:43:31 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: detecting power outage Guy K Hillyer wrote: > > Steve Fyfe writes: > > Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a Powerflash unit. Set > > the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. > > Just the sort of idea I was looking for. I wonder if the CM11 would > finish its power-up tasks soon enough to receive the command? Hi Guy, The PowerFlash has to do a startup too, but it may be a 'race'. It might be possible to put a capacitor in the line from the wall wart, and delay the voltage a bit ? Should be easy to test .... anyone ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:02:13 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: new Xtension? Phil Pedersen wrote: > I installed (2.0) last night and after some minor weirdness, it seems to be > working OK. I suspect throwing away the preferences file may be a good > thing. This is something that should be done when upgrading XTension at any time. I am remiss in not making this more obvious. The Prefs is the one file that does change often, the more we add features. > I *did* notice that the scheduled events window was missing a horizontal > scroll bar. I think it used to have one. (Hushhhhhh.... it never did.) rest of message and response in the next thread... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:06:42 -0700 From: Keelan Lightfoot Subject: Re: detecting power outage >I have XTension running on an ancient powerbook so it doesn't notice >when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to send an X-10 >command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can know that >it happened and take some action? How about using an ADB I/O to check for power line voltage? You could connect a cheap 5v DC adapter to the ADB I/O, so that it would detect power failure when the +5v disappears, or you could connect a 120v relay the power lines, so that the ADB I/O would detect a power failure indicated by the relay's contacts opening. to the You could have a small applescript poll the ADB I/O, and take action in the event of power failure. Seeing as it is powered by the computer, you could always check for power. Not a cheap solution, but an easy one... - - Keelan Lightfoot (Hoping to get into X-10 stuff soon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:17:42 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: new Xtension? Why not add a version number to the preferences file? Then when the version number changes, XTension can delete the old preferences file itself and save the user some headache. Or better yet it can parse the old preferences and write a new style format. Thanks, Greg At 1:02 PM -0400 7/18/98, michael@shed.com wrote: >Phil Pedersen wrote: > >> I installed (2.0) last night and after some minor weirdness, it seems to be >> working OK. I suspect throwing away the preferences file may be a good >> thing. > >This is something that should be done when upgrading XTension at any >time. >I am remiss in not making this more obvious. The Prefs is the one file >that does change often, the more we add features. > >> I *did* notice that the scheduled events window was missing a horizontal >> scroll bar. I think it used to have one. > >(Hushhhhhh.... it never did.) > >rest of message and response in the next thread... > >michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:26:43 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: new Xtension? Phil Pedersen wrote: > Going from 1.XX to 2.XX usually means substantial upgrades that we might be > expected to pay an upgrade fee for (unless it's windows where you pay all > the time; both in cash and annoyance :^)). Have you thought about rolling > things into a Pro version or some such so you could get a little bit larger > revenue stream? Hi Phil, I haven't really thought seriously about a Pro version for more than a year now... Many of the things that have been added recently for external app interface, are things that would be in such a version. It is getting more and more evident that XTension is nearing a point that a decision has to be made. Whether to continue to develop XTension as a single application, or to start breaking out into special 'agent' type application interfaces which call on XTension, but provide custom 'talking heads' and heirarchical PlainTalk voice interface. The primary mission of XTension has always been to be continuously reliable to a degree that very few other applications are asked to be. It has also been my personal 'thing' that XTension continue to be able to run on any old Mac with only 4MB of RAM. If XTension is to continue into the OS X world, then there will have to be two different physical versions of XTension, one for each world. At some point, there will be features in the OS X world that will not be available in the old world. So we have a 'division' coming up which can't be avoided. Thus there is going to be the bother of maintaining two different apps, and inventory, support etc. If I am to develop a PRO version, then it follows that there would have to be a version for both the new and old world. So now I got 4 different versions, and four different interfaces, etc. Ok, so maybe the PRO version provides the ability to choose the interface rather than being interface dependent. We still got 10 different products in inventory. Contrast this with the idea of just two versions of XTension, each with the ability to choose the interface, providing verbs and attachments which expect that there will be another application which really does all the neat 3DVR and speech recognition goodies... It could be that many different third party 'agents' could be developed by list members which would either be shareware or freeware, or maybe even become 'the' app that you think of when you think of Mac home automation. The logic of separating the functions means that likely you can continue to have the XTension 'host' on the old Closet Mac, and do the agent thing on your newest iMac or G5.... But regardless of what crashes on the G5, the little old Mac in the closet just keeps going.... enuf, any comments ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:40:22 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: detecting power outage Keelan Lightfoot wrote: > How about using an ADB I/O to check for power line voltage?> > (Hoping to get into X-10 stuff soon) Hello Keelan, (I noticed you signed on recently. I don't think that many others on the list know that Keelan is a long-time regular contributor to other Beehive lists, and an avid ADB I/O experimentor.) I put a simple 'solar cell' across one of the analog inputs to the ADB I/O, and taped it to a light bulb which I controlled with a X-10 Lamp module. I did this in order to play with the 'feedback' between the X-10 system and the ADB I/O, but I found that it was also a good way to detect that the power had failed or that the Lamp Module was out of 'sync' with XTension. The benefit was twofold... feedback that the lamp is on and an idea of its level, as well as a powerfail detector. Of course, the Lamp module won't come back on when the power does (X-10 versions), but since you do know that the power is off, you could periodically try to turn on the Lamp, and when you saw the feedback from the solar cell and the ADB I/O, then you'd know .... welcome to the list, we need more input from the ADB I/O arena... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:41:15 -0700 From: mitchc Subject: Re: Claris Emailer Script > activate > set bodyvar to "Test body." > set addrVar to "szimmer@alleghenypower.com" > set addrNameVar to "Steve Zimmerman" > set subjectvar to "Test Subject " set filesvar to {"Macintosh HD:XTension 1.7:XTension log"} (Obviously replacing this with the path to the file.) make new outgoing message with properties #194# {subject:subjectvar, file:filesvar, content:bodyvar, scheduled:true, recipient:{{address:{address:addrVar, display name:addrNameVar}, recipient type:to recipient, delivery status:unsent}}} I haven't tried this with the XTension log; I don't know if there would be an issue since the log would be open. (I just did a quick test and it seemed fine.) The logfile is text, so saving it as something else wouldn't be necessary. You may also want to add "compress enclosures:true" if the logfile is large. ...Mitch - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 12:04:50 -0700 From: Jim Schram Subject: Re: Remove Scheduled Event Hi Joe, >remove unit events for "Master BR Table Lamp" > >I get the following error: > >A " can't go after this identifier. > >But it works OK when I remove the word "for" such as: > >remove unit events "Master BR Table Lamp" > >I know this is a small thing but I got really mixed up when trying to >learn how to do this. Perhaps you might correct it in the manual for the >future when you get a moment. Is it possible that it IS correct in the >manual and this problem is only peculiar to my set up? I got the same error message in all the flavors of XTension I've used, so I guess the documentation has a bug. DOAH! :oP - -- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 12:11:40 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Claris Emailer Script Hi Folks, Do you have any idea how aggravating and frustrating it can be to get good 'poop' from a discussion list ? Is it my imagination or has this list 'sprouted wings' in the past two weeks ? It may be that Mitch's response has to be modified locally, but it's really gratifying that folks will take the time to help others with such things. :-) michael mitchc wrote: > > > activate > > set bodyvar to "Test body." > > set addrVar to "szimmer@alleghenypower.com" > > set addrNameVar to "Steve Zimmerman" > > set subjectvar to "Test Subject " > > set filesvar to {"Macintosh HD:XTension 1.7:XTension log"} > > (Obviously replacing this with the path to the file.) > > make new outgoing message with properties #194# > {subject:subjectvar, file:filesvar, content:bodyvar, scheduled:true, recipient:{{address:{address:addrVar, display name:addrNameVar}, recipient > > I haven't tried this with the XTension log; I don't know if there would be an issue since the log would be open. (I just did a quick test and it seemed fine.) The logfile is text, so saving it as something else wouldn't be necessary. > > You may also want to add "compress enclosures:true" if the logfile is large. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 12:26:33 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Remove Scheduled Event Hello Joe, Yup, it's wrong. I'll make the change. thanks michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 12:36:07 -0700 From: "Andre_Campeau" Subject: Talking Classic II I'm trying to get XTension to talk on my Classic II but the speech is very choppy. Should I be getting a good enough speech off the Classic and if yes, what Extensions/Control Panels should I be using? I have MacinTalk 2 and 3, Sound Manager, Voices folder and Speech Control Panel. Would I be missing something? Thanks. Andre Campeau Ottawa, Canada campeau@ottawa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 12:49:38 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Guy K Hillyer said on 7/17/98 3:21 PM >Steve Fyfe writes: > > Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a Powerflash unit. Set > > the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. > >Just the sort of idea I was looking for. I wonder if the CM11 would >finish its power-up tasks soon enough to receive the command? The CM11 does have a built-in buffer where it will save x10 commands that come in until the software can ask for it. The CM11 also has a spot for a battery - I don't know exactly what is powered by the battery, but it might keep the CM11 going enough so it can respond right away when the power is restored. You might want to experiment a bit and see how well things work. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 13:26:35 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: detecting power outage Steve Fyfe wrote: > The CM11 does have a built-in buffer where it will save x10 commands that > come in until the software can ask for it. It is a limited buffer, but I am often surprised that it does buffer at all... sometimes 4 or 5 commands. > The CM11 also has a spot for a battery - I don't know exactly what is > powered by the battery, but it might keep the CM11 going enough so it can > respond right away when the power is restored. Hmmmm. I have been suggesting since day one that the batteries in the CM11 were not necessary, and should be removed. Is it possible that with the newer CM11 ROM and the improved XTension, that it might be beneficial to have the batteries left in.... ?! In the case of a PowerFail, would it announce it to the Mac ? BUT, there is still the danger that the CM11 can get confused and try to create/initiate some macro or scheduled event by itself... Still, it's obvious that I've been arbitrarily ignoring this... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 13:39:35 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Talking Classic II Andre Campeau said on 7/18/98 3:36 PM >I'm trying to get XTension to talk on my Classic II but the speech is >very choppy. [snip] > Would I be missing something? My guess is that you are missing a machine that is powerful enough to give smooth speech. ;-) I guess I'll find out, though. I will be moving XTension to a Classic II as soon as I get the machine - its on its way. _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 14:49:08 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Sand Hill Engineering said on 7/18/98 4:26 PM >I have been suggesting since day one that the batteries >in the CM11 were not necessary, and should be removed. I have wondered about this recommendation... Since the CM11 works without the batteries, I always assumed they were only there to make sure the CM11 would not lose it mind (ie its memory where the macros are stored) during a power failure. So taking the batteries out would not have any effect unless or until the power failed. But - after a powerfailure the memory could be garbage unless the batteries were there to keep it in good shape. Seems like no batteries is more risky than having them there. No?? Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jul 1998 15:29:21 -0700 From: "Andre_Campeau" Subject: Re: Talking Classic II >My guess is that you are missing a machine that is powerful enough to >give smooth speech. ;-) > >I guess I'll find out, though. I will be moving XTension to a Classic II >as soon as I get the machine - its on its way. Thanks Steve. Please let me know what happens. Andre Campeau Ottawa, Canada campeau@ottawa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/19/98 Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:44:53 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: going .... and going by Jeff Rothfus -> Range of a DM10 by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Talking Classic II by Sean McMains -> LynX communications problems by Mark Hartman -> New Release by michael@shed.com -> Re: Talking Classic II by Nathan Gardner -> Re: New Release by "Mitchell S. Cohen" -> Re: Talking Classic II by "Andre_Campeau" -> Re: Talking Classic II by Sean McMains -> Re: Range of a DM10 by Greg Satz -> Re: Talking Classic II by Keelan Lightfoot -> Emailer Script Working! by Steve Zimmerman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 07:04:41 -0700 From: Jeff Rothfus Subject: Re: going .... and going Count my vote for preserving the 68k mac. On 7/19/98 5:43 AM you wrote: >The logic of separating the functions means that likely you can continue >to have the XTension 'host' on the old Closet Mac, and do the agent >thing on your newest iMac or G5.... > >But regardless of what crashes on the G5, the little old Mac in the >closet just keeps going.... > >enuf, any comments ? The 68k ability is one of 'The Best Features' of XTension. Let's not forget: We all are experimenters and tinkerers. As such, we are far more likely than the average Joe to want to tie-up a G3 to turn on a light bulb. For XTension to succeed as a consumer product, it must address the needs of consumers, who "just want it to work". To interweave threads a bit, isn't the primary reason batteries are included on-board the CM11, so that a PC can be *disconnected*? For whatever reason, consumers don't want to leave their computers turned on. X-10 addresses this problem (aka: consumer need) with on-board batteries. Sand Hill addresses this problem with a twelve-dollar headless server in the closet. The dual application approach seems like a great way to have our cake and eat it too: A G3 for bells, whistles, and experimentation; a 68k-in-the-closet, for some sort of assurance that the lights will be on when we return from vacation. Cheers, jeff ____________________________________________ Jeff Rothfus saranac.tv@worldnet.att.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 08:50:57 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Range of a DM10 Can anyone suggest a way to increase the range of a DM10 motion detector? It works fine when it is 5 feet away from the transceiver, but if I put it more than 30 or so feet away (outside the house), then no signal comes through. I thought maybe I could add a piece of wire as an antenna, but I have not idea where to connect it. Can anyone tell me how to do that? Any other way to get the job done? Thanks Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 10:49:57 -0700 From: Sean McMains Subject: Re: Talking Classic II Hi Andre, I would think that the Macintalk 2 voices would treat you ok, but the Macintalk 3 voices tend to be significantly more processor-intensive. Running them on a Classic may just be too much to ask! (I think they're choppy on my PB140.) If you have some RAM in your classic, you might try the Macintalk Pro voices. They require a lot more RAM, but aren't as hard on the processor. Sean >I'm trying to get XTension to talk on my Classic II but the speech is >very choppy. >Should I be getting a good enough speech off the Classic and if yes, what >Extensions/Control Panels should I be using? I have MacinTalk 2 and 3, >Sound Manager, Voices folder and Speech Control Panel. Would I be missing >something? > >Thanks. > >Andre Campeau >Ottawa, Canada >campeau@ottawa.com ============================================================================= Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 12:12:02 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: LynX communications problems Hi, everyone, I'm back - somehow I got unsubscribed. Talking to Paul Stary on the phone I found out that he and Phil were having problems with LynX communications. I have had no such problems. Comparing settings with Paul, I noticed that he had no handshaking set for his LynX; I have DTR & CTS set, and have no problems. Could this be it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 14:17:19 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: New Release Hi Folks, I've just posted a corrected version ... 2.0.1 I've always believed that it's bad luck to release an even numbered version, and this was no exception... This version fixes some bugs in 2.0 concerned with DIM/BRI commands from a 'manual' controllers which can send function codes without an address. This led to problems with the understanding about just how to handle things like a DIM command to a housecode which was 'out of the blue'...Like someone just goes to a MiniController and punches "DIM" without selecting a Unit... But, I've tried to allow for cases where you want deliberately to 'stack' addresses (or want to use the PR511's ability), as well as to 'emulate' how real X-10 modules would respond to manual commands. PLEASE: Even though this version does a 'better' job, it doesn't mean that I think that this is the final answer to all of the possible cases that can be created with manual mini/maxi controller commands. (See "Dims and the single LynX") But, I believe that this is the right direction... PS: This version includes the "size-able Script Editor Window"... As well as some corrections to the handling of 'future value' in the DIM/BRI cases. It IS advisable that you throw away your XTension Prefs file before running this version. In general, things are very stable with version 2.x, there are just a few little tweaks that need be done... PS: pointer to the new version are from the home page. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 17:20:01 -0700 From: Nathan Gardner Subject: Re: Talking Classic II Yes the Macintalk Pro voices would be best for the Classic. And, as with all processor intensive functions, if you can, turn off virtual memory and networking, they are those little no-seeums that can get ya. On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Sean McMains wrote: > Hi Andre, > > I would think that the Macintalk 2 voices would treat you ok, but the Macintalk 3 voices tend to be significantly more processor-intensive. Running them on a Classic may just be too much to ask! (I think they're choppy on my PB140.) > > If you have some RAM in your classic, you might try the Macintalk Pro voices. They require a lot more RAM, but aren't as hard on the processor. > > Sean > > >I'm trying to get XTension to talk on my Classic II but the speech is > >very choppy. > >Should I be getting a good enough speech off the Classic and if yes, what > >Extensions/Control Panels should I be using? I have MacinTalk 2 and 3, > >Sound Manager, Voices folder and Speech Control Panel. Would I be missing > >something? > > > >Thanks. > > > >Andre Campeau > >Ottawa, Canada > >campeau@ottawa.com > > > ============================================================================= > Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be > http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 17:21:07 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: New Release >PS: >This version includes the "size-able Script Editor Window"... >As well as some corrections to the handling of 'future value' >in the DIM/BRI cases. Yeay!!! *ahem* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 19:58:46 -0700 From: "Andre_Campeau" Subject: Re: Talking Classic II >I would think that the Macintalk 2 voices would treat you ok, but the >Macintalk 3 voices tend to be significantly more processor-intensive. >Running them on a Classic may just be too much to ask! (I think they're >choppy on my PB140.) > >If you have some RAM in your classic, you might try the Macintalk Pro >voices. They require a lot more RAM, but aren't as hard on the processor. You were right. The Macintalk 3 is the culprit. It works much better with Macintalk 2 or Pro. Thanks for the info. Would you know where I can get more voices? Thanks. Andre Campeau Ottawa, Canada campeau@ottawa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 20:09:30 -0700 From: Sean McMains Subject: Re: Talking Classic II Unfortunately, Apple has never released an SDK for voices, so I think what you get from them is pretty much what's available. There are rumors of a Renaissance in progress in their Speech team, but I haven't heard anything definite yet. The only voices I know of that aren't part of the basic install are higher and lower quality versions of the Macintalk Pro voices, which take more and less RAM respectively. They're available from Apple. Sean >>I would think that the Macintalk 2 voices would treat you ok, but the >>Macintalk 3 voices tend to be significantly more processor-intensive. >>Running them on a Classic may just be too much to ask! (I think they're >>choppy on my PB140.) >> >>If you have some RAM in your classic, you might try the Macintalk Pro >>voices. They require a lot more RAM, but aren't as hard on the processor. > >You were right. The Macintalk 3 is the culprit. It works much better with >Macintalk 2 or Pro. >Thanks for the info. >Would you know where I can get more voices? > >Thanks. > > > >Andre Campeau >Ottawa, Canada >campeau@ottawa.com ============================================================================= Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 20:52:50 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Range of a DM10 I had a bit of trouble with this as well, especially trying to get it through my outside walls. I had to take into account where my walls were double thinkness as well as other electrical appliances (AC, etc.) that were nearby outside. I sent a note to this list and found out that not all transmitters (DM10s) and transceivers are the same. I found that changing transceivers also helped. Greg At 11:50 AM -0400 7/19/98, Steve Fyfe wrote: >Can anyone suggest a way to increase the range of a DM10 motion detector? > >It works fine when it is 5 feet away from the transceiver, but if I put >it more than 30 or so feet away (outside the house), then no signal comes >through. I thought maybe I could add a piece of wire as an antenna, but I >have not idea where to connect it. Can anyone tell me how to do that? Any >other way to get the job done? > >Thanks >Steve > >_____________________________________________________________ >Steve Fyfe >Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 >PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax >Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 > Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 20:59:05 -0700 From: Keelan Lightfoot Subject: Re: Talking Classic II > You were right. The Macintalk 3 is the culprit. It works much better with > Macintalk 2 or Pro. > Thanks for the info. > Would you know where I can get more voices? Have you tried the two mexican voices? Because they're configured to speak mexican, they sometimes add unusual twists to english :) Also, if you want to add varation to any macintalk voice, try commands like: I always wanted to sing like [[pbas +8]] Franki Valli [[pbas -8]] or talk as fast as [[rate +600]] a cattle autcioneer [[rate -600]] Some people have managed to have macintalk sing songs using these commands (Daisy Daisy, Happy Birthday) - -Keelan Lightfoot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1998 22:08:36 -0700 From: Steve Zimmerman Subject: Emailer Script Working! Thanks for your help Mitch! XTension can now notify me at work when something occurs at home. I was unable to send the log directly, however, I first had to duplicate the file and then send the copy. I can't wait to show my Windoz co-workers, they don't know what they're missing! I still need to find (an easy) a way to disconnect the PPP connection. Apple does include a "PPP Disconnect" script with OT that I could use, but I'm not sure how to tell PPP to disconnect from a remote machine. Can Claris Emailer disconnect the connection? thanks for your help everyone, Steve Zimmerman szimmer@nfis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/20/98 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:44:32 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Insight on X10 communication by -> Dimming problems by -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by michael@shed.com -> Re: Dimming problems by michael@shed.com -> Re: Emailer Script Working! by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Dimming problems by Steve Fyfe -> Another version ! by michael@shed.com -> Repeaters by joe -> Re: Another version ! by michael@shed.com -> Re: on this day by mfjlaw -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Repeaters by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Repeaters by joe -> Re: Repeaters by Guy K Hillyer -> delays by Guy K Hillyer -> Re: Repeaters by Steve Fyfe -> Re: detecting power outage by Gunsmoke Engineering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 00:28:31 -0700 From: Subject: Insight on X10 communication I have been collecting this list for two years but have only recently started to revisit XTension and have searched the list for help on various topics. Today, I read many posts regarding signal problems with CM11 and X10 in general, and feel compelled to comment. I have professionally installed a number of X10 based home lighting systems over the past 8 years, some in houses as large as 20,000 sq. ft., as an adjunct to the entertainment systems I design and install. I have never used an amplifier/repeater. Here's why: While many X10 devices continue working with signal levels below 25 mV, I generally don't consider communication to be reliable below 100 mV. In order to get this kind of level around a large house, you can either jam tons of signal into the head-end (which should ALWAYS be at the main breaker panel), or you can resolve the attenuation factor on the line at the 125 kHz X10 operating frequency. It's important to understand comm problems from the standpoint of attenuation rather than noise, because if you have enough signal, the noise isn't a problem (i.e., good signal to noise ratio = reliable comm). The impedance of the power wiring at 60 Hz. is milliOhms (1000ths of an Ohm). But at 125 kHz, it's perhaps 1000 Ohms. This is why the X10 signal can live on the same wiring carrying 20 amps to your wall heater and still communicate. In fact, Leviton specs X10 as capable of operating over 30,000 feet of power grid with no loads between the devices. This presents its own set of problems in high density neighborhoods. Here in my area, over 10 homes share the same xfmr and, therefore, the same X10 signals. In order to keep X10 signal levels high, the impedance at 125 kHz. must remain high. There are a number of factors that can cause this impedance to drop... drastically! The most common is also the easiest to resolve. Eliminate the use of power strips with surge suppression built into them. These strips almost always have a .22 uF capacitor across the line. This drops the X10 impedance near the strip to less than 6 Ohms! A second one cuts it to 3, and so on. Additionally, almost all switching power supplies have across-the-line input filter capacitors (caps) that, like the power strip, shunt the X10 signals. Devices which have these kind of offending power supplies include: 1) Copy machines 2) Fax Machines 3) Other computer peripherals 4) Some TVs 5) Some AV equipment Many of these devices have across-the-line caps BEFORE the on-off switch so turning off the device makes no difference in the attenuation. You actually must unplug the device to eliminate the attenuation. By choosing to plug the interface into the power strip, the attenuation factor has much more impact because it is right across the interface. Even 20 feet of power wiring offers some degree of protection or isolation from the attenuation of the strip. Then by also plugging in your computer and peripherals into this same strip, each units attenuation factor further compounds the problem. You're lucky if you get 100 mV out of the end of that strip, let alone around the rest of the house. When we started investigating this many years ago, we designed and built an in-line isolator (series inductor) which allows 10 Amps of 60 Hz. current to flow with only 1% drop, while at the same time offers 15,000 Ohms of series impedance at 125 kHz. Plug your surge-suppressed power strip into this isolator and then plug all offending devices (like your computer) into this isolated strip and the attenuation is ELIMINATED from the power wiring. The other important aspect of maintaining good levels is to always source the X10 signals from the interface at the main breaker panel. This is the lowest impedance point in the system and, hence, is where the noise and attenuation is the least. Furthermore, troubleshooting attenuation is facilitated by simply throwing breakers. Using the Leviton test set, open all breakers except the ones going to the interface and phase coupler, and measure the level in the panel. It should be 5+ Volts. Then, start making the other breakers, one at a time, and watch the level. If it drops, you have attenuation in that branch. Stop there, throw open all other branch breakers except the one you are troubleshooting, and start unplugging stuff on that branch. Have a helper watch the level at the panel and when it jumps up, you've found an offender! Plug this device into an isolator and move on to the next. Sourcing at the main panel is not so easy unless you plan this in construction. However, it should not be that expensive to have an electrician install an outlet inside your home near the breaker panel where you can locate the interface (TW523 or CM11). Then put your Mac nearby. If you can't locate the Mac close to the interface, it may be possible to extend the serial bus with CAT 3 or better, 2 twisted pair phone cable, using surface-mounted RJ-11 modular jacks at each end of the twisted pair cable with standard flat wire modular cords between the jacks and the computer and interface. Has anyone ever tried extending the serial interface in this manner? If so, how far? I will try this soon and report. Ken Victor's comments about the poor design of the TW523/CM11 serial comm may make this idea impractical, if true. Using these techniques, you can make any system work well without amplifier/repeaters. Using amplifiers, rather than dealing with the source of the problem, may come back to haunt you, since as you continue to add new devices to your home's electrical system, attenuation may increase to the point where even the amplifier can't cope. Understanding which types of devices are likely attenuators and using an isolator will ensure your system keeps working over the years. And, you can always add the amplifier. It will work even better without the attenuation. Now, all you have to do is talk me into making these isolators available to XTension users. They would obviously not be UL, cost around $20, in a plug-in wall transformer package with grounded outlet exiting the bottom, black, FOB Newport Beach, CA. If there is enough interest, I will certainly consider this. Meanwhile, I have received many great ideas and solutions from the list and consider the above information a small payback for all the help you have given me. ========================================================================= Paul E. Stary Fax: (949) 854-3457 Audio-Video Engineering Email: pestary@ix.netcom.com Voice Mail: (949) 646-8877 AOL: audvideo@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 00:29:47 -0700 From: Subject: Dimming problems I use several 4-button wall controllers for scene lighting. By defining four units for the controller, I can use XTension's ON and OFF scripts for the four units to execute 8 scene commands (4 ON and 4 OFF). Here is the contents of the OFF script for one of the controller's units, although it has the same problem in the ON script. This script is used to restore night lighting levels to two lights that have been raised to 100% in the ON script. Since I am using simulated preset dimming on these lights, I need to turn them off (force them to level 0) before raising them from level 0 to ensure the light is the same brightness. Dimming down from 100% to 40% DOES NOT yield the same light level as brightening up from 0, as has been discussed here previously (due to tracking errors in X10). turnoff "Lite A" brighten "Lite A" to 40 turnoff "Lite B" brighten "Lite B" to 40 This rather straightforward script doesn't work!!! Light B continues brightening past 40% all the way to 100%. There is a slight hesitation after reaching 40, then it continues to increase. If I switch Lite A for Lite B (the order), the last light always winds up at 100%. However, if I insert another string of dims in between the two sets of commands above, the last light stops at 40%, the correct result. This resolves the problem... turnoff "Lite A" brighten "Lite A" to 40 turnoff "Dummy" -- Must be dimmable unit with HCUC and simulated preset dim enabled turnoff "Lite B" brighten "Lite B" to 40 If the unit "Dummy" is not set to dimmable and simulated preset dimming, so there is a string of dims sent to reach 0 level, then "Dummy" does not resolve the problem and "Lite B" winds up at 100%. I have tried executing this script in a global script and the same error occurs. Has anyone run across this kind of anomaly? ========================================================================= Paul E. Stary Fax: (949) 854-3457 Audio-Video Engineering Email: pestary@ix.netcom.com Voice Mail: (949) 646-8877 AOL: audvideo@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 04:58:46 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication Thanks Paul WOW ! What a great post ! I would like to post this along with the troubleshooting pages on the site..... Please? The best part of this message is that it is certainly logical that removing the 'noise' is just as effective as improving the signal strength. And now if we can just find a way to offer Paul's isolators ! Thanks for taking the time to write such an informative message. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 05:29:05 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Dimming problems Hello Paul, This sounds like you are invoking a 'feature' of X-10 devices. IF both "Lite A" and "Lite B" are set to the SAME HOUSECODE, then both will respond to DIM/BRI/ON/OFF's that are sent to that housecode. This will continue until some Other Housecode is sent ! This is an artifact of the 'stacked address' capability. IE: Send the address of several units with the same housecode. Then send one of (DIM/BRI/ON/OFF), and Each of the units will respond ! This may be 'cute' in a system with no computer, or few devices, and we have talked about deliberately using this technique on demand in XTension, but it can really be an 'overly-helpful' thing... It's neat to be able to Brighten up several lamps all at once, but if you have many motion sensors or other autonomous devices, then it is probable that one ON from a motion sensor in the middle of selecting the units to DIM, will cause all of the units that were selected, to be 'deselected' and thus won't 'track' the following commands. In your example, it doesn't work like you want until you do send a command to any address which is on another Housecode, in between the two Lamp commands. This has presented some very confusing problems with users in the past, and certainly has caused me a lot of worry trying to find the reason. In my system, this is very unusual since I have a lot of sensors going off all the time, so it is only very seldom that I actually see two or more lamps respond to the command that I meant for only one. It sounds like XTension should be doing something to help in this problem, but I haven't figured out a way to keep XTension from becoming part of the problem. Any ideas? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 05:50:57 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Emailer Script Working! Steve Zimmerman said on 7/20/98 1:08 AM >I still need to find (an easy) a way to disconnect the PPP connection. >Apple does include a "PPP Disconnect" script with OT that I could use, >but I'm not sure how to tell PPP to disconnect from a remote machine. Can >Claris Emailer disconnect the connection? Yes, Emailer can disconnect. Here is the script I use with Emailer for checking my mail. You can modify this so that it makes the mail item for the log file just before it tells emailer to check mail. HTH Let me know if you need any help. Steve - --**** Begin Script - -- Internet using OT PPP - -- Stripped down version with no interaction for call from EMailer - -- Requires: - -- - Claris Emailer 1.0v2 or later - -- - A version of OT PPP property kRANoError : 0 property kRAPortBusy : -7114 property RetryErrors : {-6020, -6023, -6021} - -- No Answer = -6023 (ISP has problems with not answering sometimes) - -- No Modem Signal = -6021 (ISP has modem problems sometimes) - -- No Dial Tone = -6020 (Line in use for voice call) - --on run --for testing inside Script Editor try -- Establish a PPP connection to the Mail Server -- Check to see if the connection is already open, copy it to WasOpen copy (PPPIsOpen()) to wasopen if not (wasopen) then set retryCount to 10 repeat until (PPPIsOpen()) or (retryCount = 0) try with timeout of 3 * 60 seconds PPP connect -- connect with all defaults end timeout on error errString number errNumber if errNumber is in RetryErrors then --if ((errNumber = -6020) or (errNumber = -6023) or (errNumber = - -6021)) then set retryCount to retryCount - 1 |delay|(30) --delay for 30 seconds else error "PPP connection not opened: " & errString number errNumber set retryCount to 0 end if end try end repeat -- If still not open, let EMailer try to get the mail anyway. If -- PPP option for "let application connect" is -- on, EMailer will attempt to connect again. Either way, if it --cannot get the mail it will create an error log entry. end if -- Send queued messages and check for new mail with timeout of 9999 seconds -- Give a large timeout to ensure the connection finishes tell application "Claris Emailer" -- Connect to service called "Internet". -- The argument that is used with "connect to" can be either the -- name of the account or the name of the service to connect to. -- You may call this as many times as necessary. connect to "Internet Connection" with sending and checking end tell end timeout -- Shutdown the PPP connection, unless it was already open. if not (wasopen) then try PPP disconnect on error end try end if on error errorString number errNumber -- Something went wrong. --display dialog "Error: " & errorString if PPPIsOpen() then try PPP disconnect on error end try end if end try - --end run on PPPIsOpen() set connectStatus to state of GetPPPStatus() return ((connectStatus = "connecting") or (connectStatus = "connected")) as boolean end PPPIsOpen on GetPPPStatus() try set status to (PPP status) on error -- display dialog "Could not obtain the status of PPP." end try return status end GetPPPStatus on |delay|(numSeconds) set theTime to (current date in seconds) set endTime to theTime + numSeconds if (front application) is application "Claris Emailer" then activate application "Finder" repeat until theTime N endTime activate (front application) --give time to other apps set theTime to current date in seconds end repeat -- WaitTicks (60 * numSeconds)--hangs if Emailer is hidden end |delay| - --****** End of Script _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 05:51:17 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication PEStary@ix.netcom.com said on 7/20/98 4:28 AM >Now, all you have to do is talk me into making these isolators available >to XTension users. They would obviously not be UL, cost around $20, in a >plug-in wall transformer package with grounded outlet exiting the bottom, >black, FOB Newport Beach, CA. If there is enough interest, I will >certainly consider this. This sounds like a great device to have. If it is so easy, why is this product not available as a UL approved device from some major mfg? Is it possible that some of the commercial "noise block" products also provide this isolation? I don't mean this to be a criticism, just a question. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 05:52:24 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Dimming problems PEStary@ix.netcom.com said on 7/20/98 4:28 AM >This rather straightforward script doesn't work!!! Light B continues >brightening past 40% all the way to 100%. There is a slight hesitation >after reaching 40, then it continues to increase. If I switch Lite A for >Lite B (the order), the last light always winds up at 100%. However, if I >insert another string of dims in between the two sets of commands above, >the last light stops at 40%, the correct result. [snip] >I have tried executing this script in a global script and the same error >occurs. Has anyone run across this kind of anomaly? What version of XTension are you using? _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 08:45:08 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Another version ! Hi Folks, I promise I'm not doing this deliberately... Still studying the effects of the manual DIM/BRI commands, and I found that it was possible to make create even more confusion than I had thought. And while testing, I found a bug in the receiving of those new "Preset Dim" commands...reporting incorrect address. I hope that this will be the last 'release' for a while :-) This one's called 2.0.3, and it is now on the downloads page. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 09:07:08 -0700 From: joe Subject: Repeaters What is the right usage of signal repeaters? I have to decide if this is what I need rather than another transceiver. Does the repeater work on only one house code or multiple house codes? Is the repeater meant to be placed near the MS12A's that the transceiver is having trouble picking signals up from? Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 09:25:38 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Another version ! Hi Folks, Well, I should have said that version 2.0.3 works great with the CM11.... I'm still not getting good behavior with the LynX and these manual commands. still in work michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 10:38:50 -0700 From: mfjlaw Subject: Re: on this day Your thoughts on the state of home automation and how it's being marketed and used by the public touch similar topics in other areas of "helper applications". Take AppleScript for example. When you first get into it, you try to do all sorts of tasks which are later discarded, as they serve no essential function and merely add a bell or whistle and eventual clutter. After your develop and trash scripts, you come up with a set of scripts very personal to the way you work and how you think, really allowing the computer to be your personal extension. The Desktop and how you organize it is another example of how a computer can become a personal extension. We all know what its like to get on someone else's computer and feel that your invading someone's privacy (i.e. by accessing their personal extension). You just can't get that type of personality with prepackage scripts/softwre unless you want to allow your working personality to formed by others (such as MS and AOL). You mentioned certain HA functions you now feel you can't live without, but to get there, I'm sure you had HA things happening in your home which now seem to have been a waste of time and energy. This is the fault I see in the huge HA packages and why we have comments from consumers like "I can't use it". Without having the ability to tweak and personalize the system (and having access to support groups such as this to get new ideas), those systems remain static and non-personal, and later to be discarded like any other toy once you grow out of it. I think what we'll see is HA systems such as the those described in this group and attached to personal computers (which already have attained the status of personal extensions) do a slow creep into individual lives, and that the system which will provide the most flexibility (including allowing the ability to tweak all aspects of the system and built-in extendability from 3rd party software and hardware) will be the survivor. Just some thoughs. Mark Johannessen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 10:44:00 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication Really one of the greatest post I saw on this list ! It will probably exhaust the question for a long time ! Especially that it mention these curses of capacitors directly connected to the power line. Sometime these capacitors are also connected to ground, which can make a sensitive differential circuit breaker to trigger. Just a remark on: > The impedance of the power wiring at 60 Hz. is milliOhms (1000ths of an > Ohm). But at 125 kHz, it's perhaps 1000 Ohms. I have some doubt on this last figure. If you think to a 100 Watts bulb on a 110 V line, it has an impedance of 120 Ohms (frequency independant since it is a resistive load). If you have a dozen of these, then the impedance of your line is more likely 10 Ohms. Not really insurmountable for the X10 transmitter since it only requires 10 mA to get 100 mV. > If you can't locate the Mac close to the interface, it may be > possible to extend the serial bus with CAT 3 or better, 2 twisted pair > phone cable, using surface-mounted RJ-11 modular jacks at each end of the > twisted pair cable with standard flat wire modular cords between the > jacks and the computer and interface. Has anyone ever tried extending > the serial interface in this manner? If so, how far? This is precisely one of the advantage of the Mac to work with RS422 instead of RS232. The differential signal allows very long serial cables (up to 1000 ft in principle). For that you must keep the 4 signal wires. But does the interfaces (CM11 or LynX) keep the full feature of RS422 or do they work with a pseudo RS232 with only 2 wires ? Thank you Paul Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 11:49:14 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Repeaters joe said on 7/20/98 12:17 PM >What is the right usage of signal repeaters? I have to decide if this is >what I need rather than another transceiver. Does the repeater work on >only one house code or multiple house codes? Is the repeater meant to be >placed near the MS12A's that the transceiver is having trouble picking >signals up from? I have not used a repeater, so if I say anything that is incorrect I hope someone will correct me. The blurb that describes the repeaters in one of my catalogs specifically says that it can be used for all house codes at the same time. The whole idea with a repeater is that it picks up signals from devices near the repeater, like MS12's, and sends the radio signal again with a stronger signal that can reach farther. Since the repeater gets power from the house current, it can send out a stronger signal than the MS12 which is battery powered. The alternative is to use a second tranceiver, but in that case you would have to use a different house code to avoid collisions - if both trancievers picked up the same signal from a MS12 and sent the same x10 command at the same time, they would collide on the power line and neither would get through (although the tranceiver may be smart enough to prevent this, but if that is so, I am not aware of it). In my house I happened to get two tranceivers, so I am using both of them but on different housecodes. It works fine, at least for the transmitters that are near enough to one tranceiver or the other. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:21:10 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Repeaters >In my house I happened to get two transceivers, so I am using both of them >but on different housecodes. It works fine, at least for the transmitters >that are near enough to one tranceiver or the other. Thanks for the reply Steve. I can't believe how short the range is for the one transceiver I have at my place. It must be because the walls are plaster and lath as opposed to drywall. I would have thought that radio frequencies could travel through walls easily enough. So it would seem that having a repeater wouldn't be a bad idea even if down the line I decided to add other transceivers. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:22:15 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: Re: Repeaters The RF repeater really does, well, repeat the commands it receives. I tried one a few months ago, before I had XTension, and found that the doubling of commands made it impossible to control DIM/BRI with any precision. I would always overshoot the level I was aiming at. So I unplugged the repeater and forgot about it. Now that Michael has revealed the braindamage of DIM/BRI, I resolved not to send DIM/BRI commands from my wireless remote. So today I decided to give the repeater another whirl. If the addressed unit has no script associated with it, XTension's log shows the command doubling that I'd suspected. On the other hand, if a repeated command triggers an XTension script that in turn sends an X10 command, the script's action is delayed for about ten seconds! I hypothesize that this happens because the script tries to send its command at the same time that the second copy of the original command is being received at the CM11, and XTension detects the impending collision and backs off for a while. In this case, XTension's log does not show the second copy of the command. I'd like to use the repeater because it makes my wireless commands a lot more reliable. But a ten-second delay between pushing a button and having the light come on is too much. It would drive my wife nuts. Before I tried the repeater, I had a notion that it would just amplify the RF signal instantaneously rather than receive, pause, and then resend. Oh well. -- Guy joe writes: > What is the right usage of signal repeaters? I have to decide if this is > what I need rather than another transceiver. Does the repeater work on > only one house code or multiple house codes? Is the repeater meant to be > placed near the MS12A's that the transceiver is having trouble picking > signals up from? > Joe > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > joe@gbgraphics.com > http://www.gbgraphics.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 17:44:31 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: delays Speaking of delays, I find that sometimes, even in the absence of a repeater, it can take five or six seconds from pushing a button to having an XTension script turn on a light in reponse. What is likely to be the cause of that delay? I'm running with a CM11 and a PowerBook 170. I thought at first that it might be because the Mac had to spin up the disk, but now it's set never to spin down the disk or "rest" the processor and I still see the delay. After a delayed response, commands sent shortly thereafter get more timely responses. Could this have something to do with the CM11? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 18:50:55 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Repeaters Guy K Hillyer said on 7/20/98 5:49 PM >The RF repeater really does, well, repeat the commands it receives. I >tried one a few months ago, before I had XTension, and found that the >doubling of commands made it impossible to control DIM/BRI with any >precision. The repeater is designed to extend the range of wireless transmitters. You would position it between the transmitter and tranceiver. The idea is that the transmitter and tranceiver are too far apart to communicate. If that is the case, the tranceiver would only receive one signal - the one from the repeater. It is apparant from your experience that using the repeater to try to boost a signal does not work well if the tranceiver can get the signal directly from the transmitter too. joe said on 7/20/98 5:26 PM >So it would seem that having a repeater wouldn't be >a bad idea even if down the line I decided to add other transceivers. Given Guy's experience, you may be better off with two tranceivers, as long as it is not a problem to use two different housecodes. If that is a problem, you might try experimenting with moving the tranceiver to several locations to see where it works best. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jul 1998 21:35:59 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: detecting power outage At 8:49 AM -0700 on 7/17/98, Steve Fyfe wrote: > Guy K Hillyer said on 7/17/98 10:12 AM > > >I have XTension running on an ancient powerbook so it doesn't >notice > >when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to >send an X-10 > >command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can >know that > >it happened and take some action? > > Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a >Powerflash unit. Set > the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. Hmmm... I wonder how the Powerflash is supposed to work when there's no 120VAC carrier signal (remember, the power just went out!). Maybe there's something in the Powerbook you can check via Applescript to tell when it transitions to battery power. Otherwise, APS makes UPSs that, when rated at over 400 (Watts?) have incorporated into them a serial interface that outputs a ttl signal that can be tracked by a Powerflash. In this case, you plug a powerstrip into the UPS, and the Powerflash into the powerstrip, so that you get power after the mains go down. You'll want to put the Lynx or CM11 into the powerstrip also, and make sure it isn't one of the filtered strips, for reasons mentioned in another recent post. The APS UPS I just purchased was about $135, and it lasts about 15 minutes when running my headless MacII. Somewhere in the archives you'll find a phone dialer script that will send a page in response to an alarm condition. I use the script to signal when the power goes down, among other things. Hope this helps, Scot Marburger - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/21/98 Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:44:45 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: detecting power outage by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Repeaters by joe -> Re: Repeaters by joe -> Re: delays by joe -> Re: Another version ! by michael@shed.com -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by Phil Pedersen -> Re: delays by michael@shed.com -> Re: delays by Guy K Hillyer -> Re: Another version ! by Steve Fyfe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 04:49:08 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Gunsmoke Engineering said on 7/21/98 12:20 AM >>>when there is a power failure. Is there some easy way to >>>send an X-10 >>>command when the power comes back on, so that XTension can >>>know that >>>it happened and take some action? >> >> Get a low voltage wall wart and hook the output to a >>Powerflash unit. Set >> the Powerflash to send an x10 when it senses the voltage. > >Hmmm... I wonder how the Powerflash is supposed to work when >there's no 120VAC carrier signal (remember, the power just went >out!). The question was - how to detect the power going ON after it failed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 06:49:49 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Gunsmoke Engineering said on 7/21/98 12:20 AM >Otherwise, APS makes UPSs that, when rated at over 400 (Watts?) >have incorporated into them a serial interface that outputs a >ttl signal that can be tracked by a Powerflash. My APS UPS has a serial connector on the back that can be connected to the serial port on a computer that is running APS's software that detects power outage. Do you know what pins I should connect to in order to connect the UPS to a PowerFlash? TIA _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 07:06:26 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: detecting power outage Steve Fyfe wrote: > My APS UPS has a serial connector on the back that can be connected to > the serial port on a computer that is running APS's software that detects > power outage. Do you know what pins I should connect to in order to > connect the UPS to a PowerFlash? Hi Steve, Have you got any info about the serial data or the connector ? It may be 'transmit only', and it may have 'handshake' lines, and it may already have just a simple contact output. Look at the application docs and see just what it is that it says in the event of power up/down, and that should give us an idea of what data it is acting on? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 08:50:00 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: detecting power outage Sand Hill Engineering said on 7/21/98 10:07 AM >> Do you know what pins I should connect to in order to >> connect the UPS to a PowerFlash? > >Have you got any info about the serial data or the connector ? >It may be 'transmit only', and it may have 'handshake' lines, >and it may already have just a simple contact output. > >Look at the application docs and see just what it is that it >says in the event of power up/down, and that should give us >an idea of what data it is acting on? Well, in order to get the info you asked for, I had to RTFM. Now, guess what - the answer to my question is right there in the book! Thanks for making me think! _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 09:22:43 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Repeaters >Given Guy's experience, you may be better off with two tranceivers, as >long as it is not a problem to use two different housecodes. If that is a >problem, you might try experimenting with moving the tranceiver to >several locations to see where it works best. This looks more like the way I should go. It'll probably save me plenty of frustration. Thanks for the reply, Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 09:23:02 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Repeaters >I'd like to use the repeater because it makes my wireless commands a >lot more reliable. But a ten-second delay between pushing a button >and having the light come on is too much. It would drive my wife nuts. > >Before I tried the repeater, I had a notion that it would just amplify >the RF signal instantaneously rather than receive, pause, and then >resend. Oh well. This is reason enough for me to shy away from such a device. I don't need more flack from my wife while tring to get a reliable system going in the home! :-) Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 09:23:52 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: delays >After a delayed >response, commands sent shortly thereafter get more timely responses. >Could this have something to do with the CM11? You probably caught your CM11 on a coffee break. :-) Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 10:52:04 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Another version ! Hi Folks, I busted my chops to try to figure out what was wrong all of a sudden with the LynX version and Preset Dims. It turns out that the 'port switcher' that I had between the LynX and the Mac was disturbing the test. When I brought the LynX to the Quadra directly, I found that there wasn't anything wrong at all...works fine. So, the files that are posted on the downloads page are correct, even for the LynX : CM11: LynX: TW : There are some outstanding things: There is still a problem with the SE/30, and I assume the Classic II, that will absolutely crash the Mac if you try to manually Edit more than one scheduled event. And, the 'TwoWay' version does not yet have the ability to send or receive the X-10 Preset Dim commands. Otherwise, there is a small graphic 'artifact' that appears when you size the Script Editor window ... not erasing before redrawing... there's gotta be something to gripe about... :-) So far, this version has been stable, and there have been no reports of problems with the new features. And I've gotten several comments about the new size-able script editor window already... :-) There is still the outstanding problem report from a user who can consistently crash his Mac with a specific script that removes and creates scheduled events. Maybe this involves a level of recursion and/or indirection to which no one else has yet delved...? I believe that all others who are using the create/remove scheduled events verbs, (and maybe the new 'suspend until') are seeing that the problems they had been seeing are no longer there...? I am really hoping that this version will be the 'released' version for some time, and I can get back to spewing out beta versions again :-) And maybe I can get on to finding all the little tweaks that needs be for the PPC native version... Thanks again for all the help testing this version. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 11:11:47 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication At 7:43 PM +0200 7/20/98, Petitgrand wrote: > Especially that it mention these curses of capacitors directly connected >to the power line. Sometime these capacitors are also connected to ground, >which can make a sensitive differential circuit breaker to trigger. As more electronic equipment is designed for world-wide usage, this problem should disappear. The newer standards used in Europe and now being harmonized with the US and Canadian standards limit the capacitance to ground and also line to line. This is making the manufacturers go to more expensive powerline filters that don't have the caps across the line as do older equipment and power strips. > This is precisely one of the advantage of the Mac to work with RS422 >instead of RS232. The differential signal allows very long serial cables >(up to 1000 ft in principle). For that you must keep the 4 signal wires. >But does the interfaces (CM11 or LynX) keep the full feature of RS422 or >do they work with a pseudo RS232 with only 2 wires ? If you look at the schematic of the Lynx at http://www.marrickltd.com/Files/SCH103.pdf , it looks like an RS-232 interface. Note that the Lynx supports hardware (RTS and CTS) handshaking and which should be used with Xtension. Otherwise, I've seen receive FIFO overrun errors on the Lynx, especially when I'm sending a long string of commands. Phil > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 11:22:05 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: delays Hello Guy, I figured there would be some other responses, so I waited... I have to admit that I have not yet 'mastered' the settings of all of my PowerBooks, PB180c, PB190cs, PB5300 & PB5300c. I am also dismayed that sometimes it takes a 'very' long time to actually come alive and respond. This is particularly obvious when I have a SE/30, Q800, and two PB's running simultaneously, side by side, each with an X-10 interface... The Q800 and the SE/30 Always beat the PowerBooks...! I have tried pulling batteries and changing Control Panel settings, but as I said, I don't yet have the answer, but I do have the problem. It's even more obvious when a motion sensor triggers that causes a spoken announcement...the PowerBooks are always one or two seconds behind, and sometimes as much as 5 seconds. If it doesn't have to 'speak', the little SE/30 is very adequate for this purpose! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 11:57:35 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: Re: delays Hmm. Well I know that the PB powers down its audio circuitry when it's not in use for a while. You can hear a click when it turns on and off. That could explain the slowness of the speech synthesizer. I wonder if the same is true of the serial ports. michael@shed.com writes: > Hello Guy, > > I figured there would be some other responses, so I waited... > > I have to admit that I have not yet 'mastered' the settings > of all of my PowerBooks, PB180c, PB190cs, PB5300 & PB5300c. > > I am also dismayed that sometimes it takes a 'very' long time > to actually come alive and respond. > > This is particularly obvious when I have a SE/30, Q800, and > two PB's running simultaneously, side by side, each with an > X-10 interface... > > The Q800 and the SE/30 Always beat the PowerBooks...! > > I have tried pulling batteries and changing Control Panel > settings, but as I said, I don't yet have the answer, but > I do have the problem. > > It's even more obvious when a motion sensor triggers that > causes a spoken announcement...the PowerBooks are always > one or two seconds behind, and sometimes as much as 5 seconds. > > If it doesn't have to 'speak', the little SE/30 is > very adequate for this purpose! > michael > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jul 1998 13:50:32 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Another version ! Sand Hill Engineering said on 7/21/98 1:51 PM >I believe that all others who are using the create/remove >scheduled events verbs, (and maybe the new 'suspend until') >are seeing that the problems they had been seeing are no >longer there...? All my issues with the create/remove events were resolved several beta's ago. I only just installed the latest released version, but my system has been stable for several weeks, even as each new version was installed. And the script window is now sized to fill up my 17" monitor! (Wouldn't you know - this happens the day before I get my Classic II which will be a dedicated XTension machine ;-p). >There is still a problem with the SE/30, and I assume the >Classic II, that will absolutely crash the Mac if you try >to manually Edit more than one scheduled event. I'll have to watch out for this one. Other than that, it's looking good! _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/22/98 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:45:17 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by michael@shed.com -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by Mark Hartman -> Re: Insight on X10 communication by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Insight on X10 communication (XOn/XOff explained) by Jim Schram -> the Ball by michael@shed.com -> RE: Another Version! by cwallac -> RE: Another Version! by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Another Version! by michael@shed.com -> Re: Another Version! by michael@shed.com -> RE: Another Version! by "Andre_Campeau" -> Re: Another Version! by -> Version 2.0.5 by michael@shed.com -> Re: detecting power outage by Gunsmoke Engineering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 06:45:50 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication >> This is precisely one of the advantage of the Mac to work with RS422 >>instead of RS232. The differential signal allows very long serial cables >>(up to 1000 ft in principle). For that you must keep the 4 signal wires. >>But does the interfaces (CM11 or LynX) keep the full feature of RS422 or >>do they work with a pseudo RS232 with only 2 wires ? Phil Pedersen wrote on Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:11:16 -0400: >If you look at the schematic of the Lynx at >http://www.marrickltd.com/Files/SCH103.pdf , it looks like an RS-232 >interface. Right it is. That's the answer I dread to receive :=( The reason is clear, these interfaces were existing before XTension was born, and were (are?) mainly destinated for PCs. However this should not discourage those who want to follow the clever suggestion of Paul E. Stary (PEStary@popd.ix.netcom.com on 20 Jul 98 00:28:13 -0800) to have a long serial cable from the Mac to the interface in order to source the X10 signal just at the main panel. The solution is to insert a RS422/RS232 converter just in front of the LynX/CM11 interface in order to keep the advantage of the RS422 transmission on long cables. There is (at least) one off-the-shelf solution available at B&B electronic http://www.bb-elec.com/catalog/converters/rs485/485drc.html Furthermore it provides optical isolation, which can help to solve surge of current and lightning problems. Of course it's a little pricy ($120), but if it can avoid a lot of repeaters/amplifiers/filters... And those who are electronicians hobbyists have already realised that it can be made with just 2 op-amp, one differential for 422->232 and one inverter for the 232->422 and possibly a pair of opto-isolators. Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 09:22:02 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication Phil Pedersen wrote on Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:11:16 -0400: > Note that the Lynx supports hardware (RTS and CTS) handshaking > and which should be used with Xtension. Otherwise, I've seen receive FIFO > overrun errors on the Lynx, especially when I'm sending a long string of > commands. WHAT ? Are you saying that the LynX doesn't support the XON/XOFF protocol ? This could be because the PC softwares use the RTS/CTS interrupts. But are you saying that XTension do use the XON/XOFF protocol ? This would be even more strange because the only reason to support different Applications for the different interfaces LynX, CM11... is precisely to match the differences in software and hardware of these interfaces. In that case I support your point of view that it would be better that XTension (at least LynX) switches to the handshake protocol. It is certainly not difficult to match the Mac handshake to the RTS/CTS. Just to check the wiring of the cable and connector and check if polarities are OK. Michael could put this on his list for Version 3.0 :=) Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 09:37:00 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication > > Note that the Lynx supports hardware (RTS and CTS) handshaking > > and which should be used with Xtension. Otherwise, I've seen receive FIFO > > overrun errors on the Lynx, especially when I'm sending a long string of > > commands. > >WHAT ? Are you saying that the LynX doesn't support the XON/XOFF protocol ? >This could be because the PC softwares use the RTS/CTS interrupts. > >But are you saying that XTension do use the XON/XOFF protocol ? You can specify which handshake method you want to use in the preferences->communications area of Xtension. I've found that using the hardware handshaking yields fewer receive FIFO overruns. Where I see these are on long strings of commands like turnoff a big group of addresses. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 09:46:34 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication Petitgrand wrote: > WHAT ? Are you saying that the LynX doesn't support the XON/XOFF protocol ? > This could be because the PC softwares use the RTS/CTS interrupts. > > But are you saying that XTension do use the XON/XOFF protocol ? Hello Daniel, XTension uses the CommToolBox, and thus the options for handshaking are already available. Unless you are specifically having trouble with overruns, the following will not be necessary.... technical : The LynX does support both 'CTS' and 'XON/XOFF' handshake modes. I believe that the cable delivered with XTension has the proper conductors. XTension normally configures the LynX so that it uses "CTS" handshake, but it is possible to make the LynX use the XON/XOFF software handshake. If you want to use XON/XOFF instead, then you must do two things: 1. XTension Preferences: Communications: Settings: Select "XON XOFF" from the handshake Popup. 2. Create a script : send data "M00=06" & return write log "Dim mode of LynX set to mode 1" write log "Handshaking changed to XON/XOFF" Execute this script on demand, or from your Startup Script. Do remember that XTension expects the LynX to use the DIM Mode 1, and anytime you write to the mode register as above, you must preserve the ONE bit in bit position 1... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 09:50:46 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication >Phil Pedersen wrote on Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:11:16 -0400: > > > Note that the Lynx supports hardware (RTS and CTS) handshaking > > and which should be used with Xtension. Otherwise, I've seen receive >FIFO > > overrun errors on the Lynx, especially when I'm sending a long string of > > commands. > >WHAT ? Are you saying that the LynX doesn't support the XON/XOFF protocol ? >This could be because the PC softwares use the RTS/CTS interrupts. > >But are you saying that XTension do use the XON/XOFF protocol ? > >This would be even more strange because the only reason to support >different >Applications for the different interfaces LynX, CM11... is precisely to >match the differences in software and hardware of these interfaces. > >In that case I support your point of view that it would be better that >XTension (at least LynX) switches to the handshake protocol. >It is certainly not difficult to match the Mac handshake to the RTS/CTS. >Just to check the wiring of the cable and connector and check if >polarities >are OK. Since XTension uses the Communications Toolbox, the handshaking is handled by the settings in the CTB dialog and internally to the CTB. I believe that the different versions of XTension have more to do with more organic differences between the interfaces than simple communications protocol issues, which are transparent when using the CTB anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 10:44:53 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication Michael wrote: >The LynX does support both 'CTS' and 'XON/XOFF' handshake modes. >I believe that the cable delivered with XTension has the proper >conductors. > >XTension normally configures the LynX so that it uses "CTS" handshake, >but it is possible to make the LynX use the XON/XOFF software handshake. > Ah, so even though the Preferences dialog allows one to change the handshaking (none, Xon/Xoff, CTS/DTR, if I remember correctly), it's not really re-configuring the Lynx? I always have to go in and change the handshaking to hardware from none when I dump my preferences file and change versions of Xtension. I don't think that this is explicitly called out anywhere as necessary for the Lynx. And yes, my cable came with the appropriate hardware handshaking lines. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 11:11:44 -0700 From: Jim Schram Subject: Re: Insight on X10 communication (XOn/XOff explained) Hi Phil, >Ah, so even though the Preferences dialog allows one to change the >handshaking (none, Xon/Xoff, CTS/DTR, if I remember correctly), it's not >really re-configuring the Lynx? Yup. For the curious... the dialog which lets you set the comms params is part of the Mac OS, not XTension, so it's nearly impossible to prevent the user from choosing "incompatible" settings (like XOn/XOff flow control). XTension *could* parse the configuration text from CMGetConfig() and check the handshake parameter, then reconfigure the Lynx when the port opens, but it's really not "proper" coding practice to parse the contents of an opaque data structure like that. Regardless, though, XOn/XOff isn't a great protocol to use. It relies on the fact that two bytes have been reserved in the data stream to represent the "stop" and "go" control messages. This leads to a number of problems... For example, if the data being sent or received ever contains one of these values, flow control will gets messed up. So an additional step must be taken to re-encode those two values in the data stream. If there's a transmission error, due to static discharge, sun spots, whatever, the XOn/XOff control bytes could become garbled. Conversely, regular data bytes could become garbled and look like control bytes. This may sound like a rare occurrence, but believe me, it happens... (ugh!) Topping all that off, it's easy to overrun a receive buffer because transmits and receives occur asynchronously, so there's a non-trivial delay between telling a device to stop transmitting and having it actually stop transmitting. Unlike hardware flow control, which is near-instantaneous; transmits cease within 1 byte. I'm just glad the industry is finally "graduating" to USB!!! Yeeeaaaa... :o) Hope this helps? - -- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 12:01:11 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: the Ball Hi Folks, Has anyone ever heard of 'the Ball' from Adcom ? see: This is really a whole system for Home Theater. And guess what's inside the box.... a Mac 7200... I wonder what would happen if XTension could creep onto the boot disk... ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 13:23:40 -0700 From: cwallac Subject: RE: Another Version! I installed the 2.0.3 version for the CM11a and now my minicontroller is malfunctioning. Mini Controller B5 - Appliance Module w/Fan B6 - Lamp Module w/Small Lamp B7 - Pseudo in XTension that toggles the FM Radio in my Mac on and off If the fan and small lamp are on and I turn the Radio off (B7 Off), the lamp (B6) and fan (B5) also go off. If the fan and radio are on and I turn the lamp off, the fan and radio also go off. I returned to using 1.7.3 and the problem disappears. Is anyone else having this problem? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Wallace Finance & MIS Manager chrisaw@aol.com Vanmark Corporation "....custom equipment for the food industry...." Industrial Parkway Creston, Ia. 50801 Ph: 515-782-6575 Fax: 515-782-9209 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 14:00:42 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: RE: Another Version! cwallac said on 7/22/98 11:23 AM >I installed the 2.0.3 version for the CM11a and now my minicontroller is >malfunctioning. [snip] > >Is anyone else having this problem? I am trying to track down a problem that may turn out to be the same thing. In my case, it seems like when a motion sensor fires, the wrong unit is turned on. Since there are scripts involved and I don't always know what sensor has tripped, it has been hard to figure out what is going on. I have not tried going back to an earlier version. I will give it a try. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 15:27:48 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Another Version! Hi Chris, Gotta be some 'magic' here ! The implication is that different XTension versions can make X-10 modules respond to commands 'differently' ??? Or maybe that XTension can make the mini-controller do this? I'm pretty sure that there is something else responsible. Like maybe a script that is turning off the other two. Or, perhaps a 'sticky' mini-controller. XTension is not sending extra commands, and as far as I know, there's no way to alter the way a minicontroller behaves, and certainly not from XTension. Please, if you think XTension is doing this, then try it without XTension running at all. michael cwallac wrote: > If the fan and small lamp are on and I turn the Radio off (B7 Off), the > lamp (B6) and fan (B5) also go off. > > If the fan and radio are on and I turn the lamp off, the fan and radio > also go off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 16:36:32 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Another Version! cwallac wrote: > > I installed the 2.0.3 version for the CM11a and now my minicontroller is > malfunctioning. Hi Chris, After re-reading this I wondered whether you meant that the units are actually responding, or whether you just saw the units change state in XTension...or both? which did you mean? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 18:15:20 -0700 From: "Andre_Campeau" Subject: RE: Another Version! >I am trying to track down a problem that may turn out to be the same >thing. In my case, it seems like when a motion sensor fires, the wrong >unit is turned on. Since there are scripts involved and I don't always >know what sensor has tripped, it has been hard to figure out what is >going on. I seem to be having the same problem. I have 2 MS12A. One that activates 2 lamps in the playroom and one for the laundry room. Sometimes, on some days, when I walk in the playroom, the laundry room light goes on and vice versa. Sometimes, walking in the playroom, turns on my 'Panic' script which turns on several lights on each of the 3 floors which is usually activated by my keychain remote in the bedroom. The two RR501 transceivers are only one floor directly above, about 10 feet away. I tried to bring the Mac downstairs by the breaker panel where I have 3 plugs on 3 different breakers right beside the breaker box but it didn't make any difference. But when I take the batteries out of the MS12A in the laundry room, things seem to get back to normal. I know that the previous owner of the house died in this house about 15 years ago. Humm? Andre Campeau Ottawa, Canada campeau@ottawa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 18:35:52 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Another Version! cwallac@creston.heartland.net writes: << I installed the 2.0.3 version for the CM11a and now my minicontroller is malfunctioning. Mini Controller B5 - Appliance Module w/Fan B6 - Lamp Module w/Small Lamp B7 - Pseudo in XTension that toggles the FM Radio in my Mac on and off If the fan and small lamp are on and I turn the Radio off (B7 Off), the lamp (B6) and fan (B5) also go off. If the fan and radio are on and I turn the lamp off, the fan and radio also go off. I returned to using 1.7.3 and the problem disappears. Is anyone else having this problem? >> I think I may be experiencing this as well, but with sensors. I am using an LC-6-X10 controller. This device is basically the equivalent of 5 powerflash interfaces on a single board and uses a TW253 interface. I was using codes A2, A3, & A4 for magnetic door sensors. Under v1.7.3, the sensors triggered perfectly. After I installed v2.03, wierd things began to happen. When any one sensor would trigger, the others would trigger as well. This happened for both the 'on' and 'off' states for any of the three sensors. For example: (Date, time and module names omitted for simplicity) If I opened the door to activate the sensor assigned to A2, the log would show: Received ON command for A2 Received ON command for A3 Received ON command for A4 When the door was closed: Received OFFcommand for A2 Received OFFcommand for A3 Received OFFcommand for A4 I even changed the Housecode of the sensors to 'B' and experienced the same behavior. I went back to v1.7.3 and restored my prefs file and 'magically' the problem disappeared. ....as Michael would say; "a snake in the grass somewhere." Anyone else?? John Arington ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 20:17:37 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Version 2.0.5 Hi Folks, After playing with this new version a little more, I think that I have created a monster. Particularly with the CM11. I am going to have to release another version... 2.0.5 : CM11: LynX: TW : This IS specially necessary for those who have CM11's. It also includes a fix for a bug reported by Steve Fyfe, regarding the 'Receive only' flag for units. It didn't work. It is fixed in this version. Most importantly, I have changed the way that XTension responds to 'stacked address' type commands. I am so sorry for this. I have been chasing this feature which is really only minimally useful, and almost impossible in any complex X-10 system. This whole thing began with the attempt to 'track' incoming stacked address type commands. The type that come from the PR511, and most specially the X-10 Maxi and Mini controllers. Although it may still be useful to implement outgoing 'stacked address' type commands, it is a real bother to try to track the incoming ones exactly like some X-10 devices might do. In short, XTension will recognize 'stacked address' commands which come from the PR511, and it will recognize explicit stacked addresses from a Mini or Maxi controller. But it will not recognize more than one stacked Command at a time. With each incoming Command, the address list will be cleared. Further commands without addresses will not be recognized by XTension. XTension will recognize: A1 A2 A3 AON -- and A1 A2 A3 ADIM, but here is a sequence that XTension will not recognize: A1 A2 ADIM ADIM -- the first DIM will affect both units in the XTension database. The second DIM will do nothing. Likewise, you can do a : A1 A4 A12 AON AON... XTension will not recognize the second ON. This may be something worthwile, but it will require a whole new timed event which I would rather avoid. I promise to revisit this, but for now, this is the simplest and most reasonable way to handle this. The idea was to have XTension recognize the 'stacked address' type of command. It has created a problem that is a real bother and can be very confusing. Here again is the way that 'stacked address' commands work : The X-10 command is composed of an address and a command. Sometimes you can send multiple addresses in the same housecode, and then a command. All 'selected' modules respond. * From the point of view of the X-10 module: If 'this' unit address is seen, then this unit is 'selected' If any address is seen that is not of 'this' housecode, then this unit is 'not selected'. If this unit is 'selected' and a ON/OFF/DIM/BRI command is seen, then do respond accordingly. (appliance modules don't respond to DIM/BRI) *From the point of view of the controllers (like XTension): Normally, with Xtension, and 99% of all of the X-10 commands, an explicit address is sent with each ON/OFF/DIM/BRI etc. IE: A1 ADIM A1 ADIM A2 ADIM etc. There are a few X-10 devices which can send multiple addresses and then a single command... IE: A1 A3 A5 AON turns on all three. And a following ADIM command would cause any Lamp modules to dim. Similarly, within the X-10 protocol, and with the Maxi Controller, you can explicitly select several units on the same housecode, and then press a command which controls all 'selected units' at once. The Maxi controller is an old device, but is nevertheless useful. Given that it can be in the household, I have to think about how a user might expect to use it ... The MiniController is somewhat simpler: when you press one of the unit ON/OFF buttons, it will send the address before the command. But if you press the DIM/BRI keys, it will NOT send an address before the command. So, at any time, you might walk up to a mini or maxi controller and press the DIM button, and IF there are any Lamp modules which have previously been addressed, AND no other housecode has been addressed, then the Lamp modules will still respond ! It is the timing of this that has caused the problem. Just how long does XTension wait before it assumes that the person doing the DIM/BRI's is satisfied and it should expect that any further commands will be preceded by an address(s). In the worst case, in the 2.0.3 version, it was possible to see the following sequence: A1 A2 A3 AON and XTension would show: Received ON for A1 Received ON for A2 Received ON for A3 Then, as long as no other housecode is sent, a motion sensor triggers which has the same house code ! You would see : Received ON for A1 Received ON for A2 Received ON for A3 Received ON for (unit code of the motion sensor) And as long as no other housecode intervened, you could continue to command the same units. Please understand that I am not saying that we won't come up with a way to handle this, but rather that I'm backing off on this particular implementation. Please forgive me. I try to honor these suggestions, but sometimes we open a bag of worms. For now, I believe that version 2.0.5 will serve almost all of the needs of those who want to play with stacked addresses and the manual controllers, but will not bother those who don't use them at all. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Jul 1998 21:28:53 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: detecting power outage I ran leads to the Powerflash from pins 4 (common) and pin 3 (normally open). The powerflash sends an ON when power goes OFF. You can reverse this logic by using pin 6 instead of pin 3. I run the powerflash in mode B3. HTH, Scot Marburger At 6:49 AM -0700 on 7/21/98, Steve Fyfe wrote: > Gunsmoke Engineering said on 7/21/98 12:20 AM > > >Otherwise, APS makes UPSs that, when rated at over 400 (Watts?) > >have incorporated into them a serial interface that outputs a > >ttl signal that can be tracked by a Powerflash. > > My APS UPS has a serial connector on the back that can be >connected to > the serial port on a computer that is running APS's software >that detects > power outage. Do you know what pins I should connect to in >order to > connect the UPS to a PowerFlash? > > TIA > > _____________________________________________________________ > Steve Fyfe > Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 > PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax > Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 > > Information Technology that Works for Your Business - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/23/98 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:44:33 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: X10 Isolators by -> Re: Dimming problems by -> Re: X10 Communication Insight by -> Re: Another Version! by cwallac -> Re: X10 Communication Insight by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 1998 01:59:59 -0700 From: Subject: Re: X10 Isolators Steve Fyfe said on 7/20/98 in response to my post the same day: >>Now, all you have to do is talk me into making these isolators available >>to XTension users. They would obviously not be UL, cost around $20, in a >>plug-in wall transformer package with grounded outlet exiting the bottom, >>black, FOB Newport Beach, CA. If there is enough interest, I will >>certainly consider this. > >This sounds like a great device to have. If it is so easy, why is this >product not available as a UL approved device from some major mfg? Is it >possible that some of the commercial "noise block" products also provide >this isolation? > >I don't mean this to be a criticism, just a question. You may be right, Steve. I recalled seeing a device from Leviton and I looked up the part number. It is Leviton 6288, or HAS 4845. HAS sells this for $26.95. I remember taking it apart and seem to recall it was a pi network (which uses a capacitor on EACH side of the inductor). This attenuates the X10 signal level on the line side. I will get one and take another look. You could open the unit and remove the line side capacitor, but that would probably void the UL. This device is rated at 5 Amps, 120 VAC max. ========================================================================= Paul E. Stary Fax: (949) 854-3457 Audio-Video Engineering Email: pestary@ix.netcom.com Voice Mail: (949) 646-8877 AOL: audvideo@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 1998 02:00:20 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Dimming problems Steve Fyfe said on 7/20/98 in response to my post of the same date: >> >> turnoff "Lite A" >> brighten "Lite A" to 40 >> >> [brighten "Dummy" to 10] -- Adding this line resolves the problem >> -- described below >> turnoff "Lite B" >> brighten "Lite B" to 40 > >>This script (w/o "Dummy" line) doesn't work!!! Light B continues >>brightening past 40% all the way to 100%. There is a slight hesitation >>after reaching 40, then it continues to increase. If I switch Lite A for >>Lite B (the order), the last light always winds up at 100%. However, if I >>insert another string of dims in between the two sets of commands above, >>the last light stops at 40%, the correct result. >[snip] >>I have tried executing this script in a global script and the same error >>occurs. Has anyone run across this kind of anomaly? > >What version of XTension are you using? I first had this problem with 2.0, but nothing improved when upgrading to 2.0.1. In a phone call to Michael after his post above, I clarified that Lite A and Lite B are on the same house code, but so is "Dummy". If the problem is the result of grouped commands, why would the presence of a lone dim command on the SAME HC between Lite A and Lite B work? Also, it is the last unit, "Lite B", that continues to brighten. If this problem were a consequence of grouped dimming, "Lite A" should be the one that continues to brighten, as "Lite B" brighten commands are applied to both units. I have not yet tried 2.0.3, but I will. Can anybody reproduce this with the Lynx? By the way, the problem occurs on both the SE30 and my G3, so appears to be platform independent. ========================================================================= Paul E. Stary Fax: (949) 854-3457 Audio-Video Engineering Email: pestary@ix.netcom.com Voice Mail: (949) 646-8877 AOL: audvideo@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 1998 02:01:12 -0700 From: Subject: Re: X10 Communication Insight Daniel Pettigrand (petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr) said on 7/20/98 in response to my post on the same day regarding X10 Communication problems due to across-the-line capacitors: > > The impedance of the power wiring at 60 Hz. is milliOhms (1000ths of an > > Ohm). But at 125 kHz, it's perhaps 1000 Ohms. >I have some doubt on this last figure. If you think to a 100 Watts bulb >on a 110 V line, it has an impedance of 120 Ohms (frequency independent >since it is a resistive load). If you have a dozen of these, then the >impedance of your line is more likely 10 Ohms. Not really insurmountable >for the X10 transmitter since it only requires 10 mA to get 100 mV. > Daniel, I am referring to the SOURCE impedance, that is, looking backwards from the load into the power source (the pole). Given the ability of a typical residential electrical service to deliver 100 Amps per residence, and a that the pole transformer serves about 10 homes, the transformer can deliver about 1000 amps (although this is based on peak demand and probably isn't capable of continuous output at such a power level). To simplify the analysis, assume a purely resistive load. Then, the source impedance can be crudely calculated as shown below: Given Ohms Law: Volts (E) = Amps (I) x Resistance (R), E = IR Solving for Resistance, R = E/I R = 120/1000 = .12 Ohms This is not quite 1/1000th of an Ohm, but is still only 120 1000ths. I may have been a bit zealous in trying to make my point, but the order of magnitude of the comparison is pretty close. My point is that were it not for the difference in the power line impedance between 60 Hz. and 125 kHz., X-10 signals could not coexist with the 120 VAC. My guess is that the current available from any X-10 device is on the order of 10's of milliamps. If you calculate the current required to drive 100 mV rms into 6 Ohms (the approximate impedance of a .22 uF capacitor, you wind up with a PEAK current requirement of just under 25 mA. So, it is feasible that an X-10 device can source that kind of current, but you can appreciate how additional capacitors across-the-line can raise this current requirement very quickly AND can drop the level of the signal throughout the system. I would love to hear from X-10 engineers or other electrical engineers who may have analyzed the basic X-10 drive circuits to get a better understanding of what kind of load the modules are capable of reliably driving. ========================================================================= Paul E. Stary Fax: (949) 854-3457 Audio-Video Engineering Email: pestary@ix.netcom.com Voice Mail: (949) 646-8877 AOL: audvideo@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 1998 08:15:47 -0700 From: cwallac Subject: Re: Another Version! michael@shed.com wrote: >> I installed the 2.0.3 version for the CM11a and now my minicontroller is >> malfunctioning. > > >After re-reading this I wondered whether you meant that the >units are actually responding, or whether you just saw the >units change state in XTension...or both? The units are actually responding. The mini-controller is across the room from XTension. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Wallace Finance & MIS Manager chrisaw@aol.com Vanmark Corporation "....custom equipment for the food industry...." Industrial Parkway Creston, Ia. 50801 Ph: 515-782-6575 Fax: 515-782-9209 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 1998 10:35:56 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: X10 Communication Insight >> > The impedance of the power wiring at 60 Hz. is milliOhms (1000ths of an >> > Ohm). But at 125 kHz, it's perhaps 1000 Ohms. >> I have some doubt on this last figure. If you think to a 100 Watts bulb >> on a 110 V line, it has an impedance of 120 Ohms (frequency independent >> since it is a resistive load). If you have a dozen of these, then the >> impedance of your line is more likely 10 Ohms. > I am referring to the SOURCE impedance, that is, looking backwards from > the load into the power source (the pole). I completely agree with your figures concerning the source impedance at 50 Hz (it must be between 1/10 and 1/1000, say 1/100 Ohm). But my comment only concerned the impedance at 125 kHz for the X10 signal. You are right to point out when we are talking about source or load impedance. Imagine the power line with the source on the left and the load on the right. For what concerns the X10 transmitter situated between, these two impedances are in parallel. At 50 Hz the load is 10 Ohms and the source is about 1/100 Ohm. Thus the relevant effective impedance is the lowest i.e. 1/100 Ohm. At 125 kHz the situation is reversed: the highest impedance is the source (because of inductance of transformers..) and the lowest is the load (10 Ohms in my example). This is why it is relevant to consider the LOAD impedance for the 125 kHz impedance why you are right to say that the relevant impedance at 50 Hz is the SOURCE impedance i.e. 1/100 Ohm. > I would love to hear from X-10 engineers or other electrical engineers who > may have analyzed the basic X-10 drive circuits to get a better understanding > of what kind of load the modules are capable of reliably driving. Some elements to answer this question can be found from X10 modules hackers. My favourite source is the Hans Hans Attersj#246#'s site: http://www.io.com/~hattersj/index.html from that we can learn that: 1) the DC voltage of the modules are 12-15 V. 2) the output impedance adaptation is made by a 0.1 uF capacitor equivalent to 13 Ohms at 125 kHz. Thus a load of 10 Ohms is perfectly adapted and should give a X10 signal of roughly 6-7 V. And a heavy load of 1 Ohms corresponding to 10 kW should still give a signal of 0.5 V. But as you pointed out capacitors are much more effective signal killers. Daniel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/24/98 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:44:35 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: Version 2.0.5 by michael@shed.com -> Re: Version 2.0.5 by michael@shed.com -> Re: Version 2.0.5 by "Chuck and Karen Coleman" -> Re: Version 2.0.5 by joe -> How Ick(y) by michael@shed.com -> Re: Version 2.0.5 by michael@shed.com -> Stacked Addresses by michael@shed.com -> Talk about Bugs ! by michael@shed.com -> Re: Talk about Bugs ! by "Chuck and Karen Coleman" -> Re: Talk about Bugs ! by Mark Hartman -> YoYo heap corruption by Greg Satz -> XTension Application Archive? by Gunsmoke Engineering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 07:22:03 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 Hi Folks, This is ONLY for LynX users : There is now a new version of 2.0.5 on the downloads page. It specifically fixes a bug in the DIM/BRI logic. This is a small thing, but it can be confusing if you use a Mini Controller and/or do DIM/BRI's from a remote. The file is still labeled 2.0.5, BUT the modification date is : 7/24/98 10:01AM. I appologize for not bumping the version. I'd like to keep the different ones in sync. Otherwise, things are looking pretty good for the stability of this version. anybody seeing any funnies ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 08:13:00 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 Hi LynX users: Hold off on the download for a bit, I just found another hole in the DIM logic. whoof, am I getting tired of these stacked addresses :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 08:26:11 -0700 From: "Chuck and Karen Coleman" Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 I tried to download the lynx version update but got a 404 (file not found). I did have to remove the preferences file from the old version since it kept asking for the master disk on each restart. But other than that it appears to be real stable. But I have never had any problem with any of the versions. I had my system running for 3 weeks while I was on vacation with the security system and it ran fine (with 1.7.5.2). Didn't freeze up, recorded the attempted break-in on my garage (siren must have scared em off along with the voice message over the PA that the police were being called and my neighbor who is an active NRA member was on the way). I had it set to restart every morning at 0300 and had Norton Utilities in the auto mode to correct any problems that cropped up. I have it on a 2si connected to the network with 5 other MAC's. It was attached to a UPS in case of power failure. My sister in law stopped by several times and said the place lit up like a Christmas tree as she walked by various sensors and lights and music came on and off. The automatic fish feeder I made worked great. Normally my vacation is a death sentence for my fish. Chuck and Karen Coleman coleman@teleport.com - ---------- From: michael@shed.com To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998, 7:25 AM Hi Folks, This is ONLY for LynX users : There is now a new version of 2.0.5 on the downloads page. It specifically fixes a bug in the DIM/BRI logic. This is a small thing, but it can be confusing if you use a Mini Controller and/or do DIM/BRI's from a remote. The file is still labeled 2.0.5, BUT the modification date is : 7/24/98 10:01AM. I appologize for not bumping the version. I'd like to keep the different ones in sync. Otherwise, things are looking pretty good for the stability of this version. anybody seeing any funnies ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 08:41:59 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 >Didn't freeze up, recorded >the attempted break-in on my garage (siren must have scared em off along >with the voice message over the PA that the police were being called and my >neighbor who is an active NRA member was on the way). That sounds really good. My wife and I were kidding about making a recording to play over speakers if there was an attempted break in that has her saying, as the sound of a shotgun is being readied in the background, "Now Dear, don't go shootin' him if you don't hafta, I'm still tring to get the blood stains of the carpet from the last one". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 09:27:10 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: How Ick(y) Chuck and Karen Coleman wrote: > My sister in law stopped by several times and said the place lit up like a > Christmas tree as she walked by various sensors and lights and music came on > and off. The automatic fish feeder I made worked great. Normally my vacation > is a death sentence for my fish. I can relate. At one time I maintained up to 20 tanks, and it was a real bother to go on a vacation even for a few days. Although I don't maintain aquariums these days (preferring the more maintainable pond..), I know that there are many of you who do, and this is just one more thing that will make all this worthwhile... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 09:35:36 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Version 2.0.5 Sorry, but I jerked the LynX file from the downloads page while I corrected it. It was abrupt, but I didn't want you to waste your time again and again... The LynX version is now behaving itself and is back on the site: If you have downloaded any of the 2.0.x versions, you MUST delete them and download this version. I finally drove the little cockroach into a corner, only to discover that "a Bug" (ala Men In Black), was behind me... Also thanks to Steve Fyfe who helped me think about the stacked address problem. again, I'm sorry for the bobbles. Now, thanks to Greg Satz, who faxed me the docs, I will try to implement the stacked addresses and Preset Dim for the TwoWay... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 11:17:10 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Stacked Addresses Hi Folks, Having just spent a lot of time trying to make XTension behave with stacked addresses, I thought that it might be useful to write something about them... michael - ------------- About "X-10 Stacked Addresses" and devices that use them. Basically, this is the ability to select several units before sending a command. The selected units all respond at the same time. As long as no other house code is addressed, each of the selected units will continue to respond to commands. The best way to illustrate this is by using the venerable old "Maxi-Controller". This table-top plug-in controller has buttons which require that you press the address of the unit and then the command. It also allows that you can press the address of several units and then press the ON/OFF/DIM/BRI buttons. As above, each of the selected units will respond. So here's the kind of manual sequence that X-10 had in mind when it provided this controller : ( they assumed you were looking at the lamps too :-) Note that although both the house code and Unit Code are sent with each address, whenever a command is sent, the House Code is repeated. (IE: address: A1 = house code A, Unit 1 command: AON = House Code A, command = ON ADIM = House Code A, command = DIM ) A1 A2 A3 AON -- all three lamps turn ON ADIM -- DIMs all three ! ADIM ADIM -- Each will make the lamps dim about 5% etc. UNTIL : Another House Code is addressed on the Powerlines. Thus the previous example can be interrupted: A1 A2 A3 AON -- same as above. B3 ON -- maybe a motion sensor triggering ? ADIM -- from the maxi (or minicontroller) ... DOES NOTHING this is because the B3 event 'de-selected' all units in house code A In this case, NONE of the units A1,A2,A3, and no units on House Code B, will respond to the ADIM... In a home where there are no motion sensors or other autonomous sensors, then it is possible that two people choose to use their controllers at the same time. There are many different and amusing things that can happen... - --- Regarding the difference between the Mini and Maxi Controllers: The Maxi-Controller can stack commands very nicely, and given that there are no intervening house code events that occur, you can DIM/BRI multiple lamps without much concern. The Mini-Controller is slightly different, in that it always sends both the command and the address for ON's and OFF's, but when you press the DIM or BRI buttons, it (like the Maxi) assumes that a unit on the same House Code has been selected. It sends only the command DIM/BRI and the House Code. The bottom line with the Mini-Controller : You cannot 'stack' commands. You can DIM/BRI a single unit. You cannot address several units and then issue a DIM for all. - --- Other devices which use 'stacked addresses' : The PR511 is the (in)famous Motion Sensor/Floodlight. It has all sorts of settings, and is really meant to behave by itself without any computer involved at all... You can set this device so that it will send ON/OFF commands to as many as 8 different Unit Codes within the same House Code that it is set for. Whether by Dusk sensor or by Motion, for each of the Units that are "IN" on the control panel of the PR511, whenever the event triggers, it will send a 'stacked address' command.... It will not send an address and then a command for each of the selected Units. So if you have the base code of the PR511 set to A1, and you have selected the DUSK units to be " +1 +2 +3 (all IN) and you have DUSK selected, whenever DUSK falls, the PR511 will send : A2 A3 A4 AON And, if nothing else intervenes, all three lights will turn on. Again, this sequence can be interrupted by such things as motion sensors, and it really should be something that you let XTension do for you. In fact, it's a good thing to do regardless. Push buttons that trigger macros (scripts). Going through XTension may be a little slower, but it is more reliable and easier to maintain. - --- How does XTension support "stacked addresses" ? XTension version 2.0.5 now responds correctly to these commands. It emulates the behavior of the actual units, and updates the database according to the way it thinks that the units would respond. Although it is still possible to get light levels screwed up, this can be done easily without XTension at all, and at least XTension will behave as well as the Units... :-) - --- Sending "Stacked Addresses" from XTension: XTension does not do this at this time. Recent changes in XTension, as well as the new graphic "Drag-to-Reorder" ability in the Edit Group Dialog, are intended to make it easier to be able to take advantage of this X-10 feature. The Order of the units (top to bottom) in the Edit Group dialog, is the order that the Units will be commanded now. It is expected that in the future, XTension (either automatically, or by explicit verb) will detect the capability of 'stacking' the addresses before the command. This can indeed provide some very nice 'scene' effects, so it is something that will be added in the near future. - --- Technical Logic of the behavior of XTension : XTension remembers the last House Code which was sent on the lines. It also maintains an address 'list' of what it believes are the units that are currently 'selected'. If XTension Receives any command which includes a House Code which is identical to the House Code of the list of 'selected units', then it will assume that each of these units will respond, and it attempts to update the XTension database for each of the 'selected units'. If the House Code included with the command is not the same as that of the units in the address list, then it will do Nothing in response. Hopefully, just like the real modules. If an explicit Address is received After any Command, then XTension will assume that a new address list is beginning, (maybe only one), and will start a new address list. IF any of the 'odd' commands occur, like Preset Dim, Status Request, etc, then the 'address list' is reset to 'empty'..... This should be the way it works, according to the X-10 book, and accordingly, it is prone to 'funnies' when you're trying to manually 'stack' commands, and less often when things like the PR511 try to use them. However, I think that IF this latest version is really right, it should behave at least as well as the X-10 modules, and perhaps a little better...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 11:50:37 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Talk about Bugs ! Hi Folks, Well, here I was feeling pretty good when in a private chat, Steve tells me that XTension doesn't track ON commands to a unit that has not actually been turned OFF. Oy vey... It had never occurred to me that a unit that received an ON command would not turn ON, and that of course meant 'Lamp modules'.... Well, it ain't so... If a Lamp module has received any DIM or BRI command, since it was last turned ON, it will not respond to any further ON command until it has been specifically commanded OFF. IE: Turn on a lamp, DIM it to 50%, and then send an ON command to it. The Lamp will not change brightness. BUT, XTension will record in the database that the lamp is at 100%.... THIS IS A BUG. This is a fairly simple change, but it does add one more reason why I should commit hara kiri... NOTE that this is not noticed when the unit is declared to be a "simulated preset dim" type unit, because XTension never really sends an OFF or an ON to that unit... This is particularly noticable in Lamps which you like to control directly from table-top or wireless controllers. how very ugh...back on my head michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 13:06:22 -0700 From: "Chuck and Karen Coleman" Subject: Re: Talk about Bugs ! Michael, Most of us appreciate your efforts. It is refreshing to see someone actually take responsibility for problems (unlike Microsoft, Intel and all the other big boys). Two things in life are important to remember: 1) Don't sweat the small stuff 2) It's all small stuff. Keep up the good work. We are behind you all the way. Chuck and Karen Coleman coleman@teleport.com - ---------- From: michael@shed.com To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Subject: Talk about Bugs ! Date: Fri, Jul 24, 1998, 11:54 AM Hi Folks, Well, here I was feeling pretty good when in a private chat, Steve tells me that XTension doesn't track ON commands to a unit that has not actually been turned OFF. Oy vey... It had never occurred to me that a unit that received an ON command would not turn ON, and that of course meant 'Lamp modules'.... Well, it ain't so... If a Lamp module has received any DIM or BRI command, since it was last turned ON, it will not respond to any further ON command until it has been specifically commanded OFF. IE: Turn on a lamp, DIM it to 50%, and then send an ON command to it. The Lamp will not change brightness. BUT, XTension will record in the database that the lamp is at 100%.... THIS IS A BUG. This is a fairly simple change, but it does add one more reason why I should commit hara kiri... NOTE that this is not noticed when the unit is declared to be a "simulated preset dim" type unit, because XTension never really sends an OFF or an ON to that unit... This is particularly noticable in Lamps which you like to control directly from table-top or wireless controllers. how very ugh...back on my head michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 13:45:01 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: Talk about Bugs ! >Two things in life are important to remember: >1) Don't sweat the small stuff >2) It's all small stuff. > >Chuck and Karen Coleman >coleman@teleport.com And, Michael, all of us out here are certainly glad that, like most people who accomplish worthwhile things, you don't live by these silly rules. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 18:57:03 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: YoYo heap corruption A while ago while debugging a problem with XTension, I noticed that the YoYo software had corrupted its memory (heap). YoYo is a neat caller id device from http://www.big-island.com. In an effort to make the Mac that runs XTension as reliable as possible, I discovered that changes I made to the YoYo's email notification script were causing the corruption. I use Eudora to send email. When Eudora is busy checking or retreiving mail, requests to send a new message timeout. In an effort to make the YoYo email sending more reliable, I put try/on error handlers around the tell application "eudora". If Eudora times out and the on error handler is invoked, the YoYo software corrupts itself. Real big bummer. I sent a note to Big Island but they have no plans to even look at the software until the end of the year. Even bigger bummer. So don't use try/on error in YoYo scripts. If you want to make your YoYo emails more reliable but not corrupt memory, read on. I made the YoYo script tell XTension to save the caller id info. So instead of YoYo telling Eudora to send mail, YoYo tells XTension to tell Eudora to send mail. If anyone is interested in the scripts that I use, let me know. Thanks, Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jul 1998 22:18:32 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: XTension Application Archive? After a recent bout with upgrade mishaps, it occured to me that it would be very handy to be able to download previous versions of XTension for all of the supported platforms. I don't keep old versions (except the previous one), but it would be a real comfort to know that a "known good", or at least a version whose foibles are well characterized, were available on the shed.com website. Any other takers? - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/25/98 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:44:54 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Blocked units? by Bill Pearce -> Re: YoYo heap corruption by Guy K Hillyer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Jul 1998 13:28:07 -0700 From: Bill Pearce Subject: Blocked units? With it being only a mere 31C (88F) outside I decided to play around with some scripts. Everything went as expected except when I tried to block 2 units that I didn't want to turn off when I issued an all lights off for that house code. I ran the following script" block unit "Master Light" block unit "Nursery Light" all lights off "A" ... unblock unit "Master Light" unblock unit "Nursery Light" Master Light is A2 and Nursery Light is A15. I went and turned both of these lights on and ran the script. A2 was truned off and A15 was left on. I was expecting both of them to be left on. XTension marked both of them off in the Master List though. I'm using version 2.0.5. Looks like a big to me. With it being much hotter elsewhere I doubt I'll see a response for a while so I think I'm going to just turn the computers (except XTension) back off for a while and check back this evening. Bill Pearce Terill Enterprises Ltd. 260 Covington Road N.E. Calgary, Alberta, Canada T3K 4G2 (403) 226-1836 (Phone) terill@home.com (Email) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Jul 1998 21:14:51 -0700 From: Guy K Hillyer Subject: Re: YoYo heap corruption I'd like to see an example of XTension using Eudora to send mail. Greg Satz writes: > A while ago while debugging a problem with XTension, I noticed that the > YoYo software had corrupted its memory (heap). YoYo is a neat caller id > device from http://www.big-island.com. > In an effort to make the Mac that runs XTension as reliable as possible, I > discovered that changes I made to the YoYo's email notification script were > causing the corruption. I use Eudora to send email. When Eudora is busy > checking or retreiving mail, requests to send a new message timeout. In an > effort to make the YoYo email sending more reliable, I put try/on error > handlers around the tell application "eudora". If Eudora times out and the > on error handler is invoked, the YoYo software corrupts itself. Real big > bummer. I sent a note to Big Island but they have no plans to even look at > the software until the end of the year. Even bigger bummer. So don't use > try/on error in YoYo scripts. If you want to make your YoYo emails more > reliable but not corrupt memory, read on. > > I made the YoYo script tell XTension to save the caller id info. So instead > of YoYo telling Eudora to send mail, YoYo tells XTension to tell Eudora to > send mail. If anyone is interested in the scripts that I use, let me know. > > Thanks, > Greg > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/26/98 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:44:08 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> "ALL" type commands and Blocking by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Jul 1998 09:31:29 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: "ALL" type commands and Blocking Hello Folks, I've been working on some pages for the website which describe the more exoteric features of the X-10 system. Here is the start of the one about the "ALLx" type commands : "All Units OFF", "All Lights ON" and "All Lights OFF" commands : These commands are certainly useful, but were really meant for use in systems where there was no computer involved. It was originally meant for manual systems, where they allowed for a very quick way to turn on/off a number of lights/units at once. Here's the way they work: (Some of the special modules will behave differently, and there are comments to this effect at: ) - -- All Units OFF : (There IS no 'All Units ON' command) This command is always sent with a chosen "house code" All Units which are addressed to the same 'house code', will Turn OFF, whether they are Lamp Modules, or Appliance Modules. Each module will respond as if they received individual OFF commands. - -- All Lights ON : This command is also sent with a house code. All LAMP Modules with the same house code will turn ON to 100% No Appliance modules respond at all. - -- All Lights OFF : This command is sent with a house code. All LAMP Modules with the same house code will turn OFF ( 0% ) (note that this will invoke the 'feature' of Lamp Modules such that if you try to Brighten a Lamp that is OFF, it will turn itself Full ON, and then DIM down. ) - ---- Now, that is what happens whenever you send the ALLx commands from a Mini/Maxi controller, OR from XTension. There is no way to keep the modules from responding to these commands once they are sent out to the PowerLines. Next, remember that XTension allows both 'direct addressing' as in : Turn on unit "A1", from scripts, or the X-10 Controls Panel; and "Named Addressing" as in : Turn on "Living Room Lamp". Both techniques end up sending commands, but the reason that the 'direct' addressing is provided, is primarily for testing and troubleshooting. It is intended that you should never have to use 'direct' commands in your unit or global scripts. - -- The way XTension behaves when it Receives one of these "ALLx" commands: "All Units OFF" -- XTension will reflect that all of the units in the XTension database that have the same 'house code', are turned OFF, BUT NO Unit Scripts will be executed. "All Lights OFF" -- XTension will reflect that all of the units in the database, which are also "Dimmable", are set to level 'zero', But again, no scripts are executed. "All Lights ON" -- same, except that dimmable units will be set to 100% in the Database. No scripts executed. Note that XTension cannot block the actual command that comes from another source, nor can it block the way that the individual modules respond to those commands. Therefore, even if you have 'blocked' a unit in the database, and a real 'Allx' command occurs, XTension cannot prevent the unit from changing state. - -- How XTension handles 'Blocked units' when YOU issue a ALLx command IE : All lights ON "A" IF you issue a ALLx command, XTension will NOT honor the 'block' of units on that house code. It will actually send the single command "All lights ON..." to the Powerlines. IF you issue a Turn ON "Group name", then XTension will issue separate commands for each member of the group that is not 'blocked'. Keep in mind that there may be devices on a single housecode which are not Lights and Appliances. Like motion sensors or 'macros' ? What happens if an "All Units ON" command is sent manually, and XTension sees this come IN...? XTension will not execute any unit script. Thus an ALL Units command cannot trigger motion sensor scripts etc. So what's this mean to the average XTension user? Not much, unless you really do want to use and manage your system 'expecting' to be able to use these ALLx commands. The easiest way to do this is to NOT attach scripts to units which could be commanded this way, AND to put sensors etc on house codes which are separate from the Lights. There are plenty of housecodes, and I suggest that you put sensors and macro commands on housecodes which do not include lights or units which you wish to command using the ALLx type commands. - -- How about the advanced user? The Attachments Script is provided for the convenience of users who want to do special processing of these ALLx type commands, and for that matter, ANY of the commands that are received by XTension. You can create 'command handlers' which intercept any of the ALLx type commands, and therefore either defeat the way that XTension processes them, OR respond with any other function you may choose. I hope this isn't too confusing, and even more, I hope it is accurate ! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/27/98 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:44:47 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Anyone else see these dimming problems? by Steve Fyfe -> Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by joe -> Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by michael@shed.com -> Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by Jim Schram -> Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by joe -> Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by joe -> DM10A Motion sensor by "Andre_Campeau" -> Re: DM10A Motion sensor by Jim Schram -> Re:Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps by joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 06:49:52 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Anyone else see these dimming problems? I am having two problems related to dimming that seem to only happen with my setup. Does anyone else have these problems? 1. Use the slider on the Control Panel to attempt to dim a lamp. XTension goes through the motions, but the log entry always ends with "no X10 command sent", just like it would if the unit were marked as receive only and the lamp does not dim. This happens for every dimmable unit, but dimming from a script or from the Command Line window work correctly. I first saw this problem a couple of months ago and it is still present in v2.0.5. 2. If I use a minicontroller to dim a lamp, I press the On button then press the Dim button. The lamp turns on and then dims, as it should. But XTension only sees the On. The Dims are ignored by XTension v2.0.5, but XTension v1.7.5.5 sees the Dims and changes the lamp's value in the database. Any of this sound familiar to anyone? Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 11:52:47 -0700 From: joe Subject: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps How many of you have tried this before: There are 2 lamps in the master bedroom and a MS12A motion detector. The MS12A is set to housecode C2. When motion is detected a script is sent to turn on lamp number one (A1). Because of the delay in turning on a light in this room I thought that I would try and set the second lamp to the same housecode as the MS12A (C2). My thinking was that the second lamp would come on fast when the MS12A detected motion and then the first lamp would come on with its usual delay. This didn't work. Lamp one came on with its delay but lamp two, set to the same housecode as the MS12A, didn't come on. Why wouldn't lamp two come on? Doesn't it send an ON signal to housecode C2? I also tried to add; turnon "lamp two" (C2) in the ON script for the MS12A. Still no go. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 13:23:39 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps Hi Joe, Is it possible that the Lamp which is on the same house/unit as the MS12a is on a separate 'leg' in your house power? That's the first thing that comes to mind. Otherwise, there is no reason why the Lamp shouldn't come ON at the same time ... But don't forget, that if you do get it to respond, then it will also go OFF 6 minutes after no motion... I can tell you though that the MS12 is not as snappy as you would think it should be. I often see one or two seconds delay between my movement (very close), and the 'red LED', and the actual command. But this is not consistent. Sometimes it is very quick. I'm beginning to think that it may be because the transceiver is a little smarter, and does make sure that the powerlines are clear before sending the command ? Put the Lamp in another socket somewhere and see if it isn't controlled properly from there. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 13:35:22 -0700 From: Jim Schram Subject: Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps Hi Joe, >...I would try and set the second lamp to the >same housecode as the MS12A (C2). My thinking was that the second lamp >would come on fast when the MS12A detected motion and then the first lamp >would come on with its usual delay. > >This didn't work. Lamp one came on with its delay but lamp two, set to >the same housecode as the MS12A, didn't come on. Why wouldn't lamp two >come on? Doesn't it send an ON signal to housecode C2? > >I also tried to add; turnon "lamp two" (C2) in the ON script for the >MS12A. Still no go. I don't use MS12A's in my house because of their weak radio signal, however, I do use the bigger, beefier DM10s in my hallways set to the same address as the hallway lights -- exactly as you've tried. Works great. It sounds to me like the lamp and RF receiver (and/or the lamp and XTension) are not "close enough" on the powerline to relay the MS12A's on command. Try plugging the RF receiver into the same outlet as your XTension interface -- does XTension see the on command? Can you turn on the lamp "manually" via XTension at all (e.g. turnon "lamp two" in the command line window)? - -- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 14:34:29 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps >But don't forget, that if you do get it to respond, >then it will also go OFF 6 minutes after no motion... I have a plan for this problem... I'll just try and get this first step working. I'll let you know, Thanks, Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 14:34:48 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps >It sounds to me like the lamp and RF receiver (and/or the lamp and >XTension) are not "close enough" on the powerline to relay the MS12A's on >command. It might be the lamp and XTension. I'll move some things around and try this again. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 16:21:41 -0700 From: "Andre_Campeau" Subject: DM10A Motion sensor I have a DM10A motion detector (A2) on the back deck to detect any intruders at night. I want the detector to activate a light in our bedroom (A12), one on the deck (A13) and in the living room (A10) too. I only want this to happen between 11 pm and 6 am. I now set an event to 'block' the motion detector at 6 am and another event to 'unblock' it at 11 pm but every time we are on the deck during the day, an activity gets written in the XTension log. This ends up being several 100 times a day with the kids. Is there a way to activate this motion detector only during the hours I want it to without having all those logs? Thanks. Andre Campeau Ottawa, Canada campeau@ottawa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 17:01:22 -0700 From: Jim Schram Subject: Re: DM10A Motion sensor Hi Andre, >I have a DM10A motion detector (A2) on the back deck to detect any >intruders at night. >... >This ends up being several 100 times a day >with the kids. Is there a way to activate this motion detector only >during the hours I want it to without having all those logs? I have the same issue with my DM10s -- they trigger every 30-60 seconds while movement is present, which can lead to a very full log file(!) I set my logging level to exceptions only, and use the "write log" verb in scripts which should add entries to the log. This lets *me* decide what's important enough to be logged. Only when I'm debugging a new script or other database modification do I change the logging option to "all" or "database items only." One other solution would be to avoid using the block command altogether. Rather, check the time in the on script for the motion sensor before sending the turnon for the light. You'll still get the "received on command" entries in the log file, but at least you won't get the "blocked on command" entries as well. - -- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jul 1998 20:10:49 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re:Experiment with MS12A and 2 Lamps OK, you were right, I had a problem with the location of the transceiver and the module controlling the second lamp. I moved the receiver to another location and it turned on the second lamp. While that second lamp came on before the first lamp did, it only beat it by a very very short time - less than a second. So this is ample evidence that the outlets in this room are on different legs of the power supply. I have an electrician scheduled to come in soon to take a look at consolidating the existing electrical service into a breaker panel that will give me full control over sending signals throughout the house once there is a signal bridge in place. The electrical service in this home is currently a bunch of fuse boxes that have been put in at various times over the years. There's 6 different boxes with anywhere from four or more fuses each in them. I'm bracing myself for the estimates. Can anyone predict if this will be an expensive modification? If it is too expensive, is there a way to bridge a fuse box scenario? Any electricians on this list? Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/28/98 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:45:15 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: DM10A Motion sensor by Phil Pedersen -> Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chad A Gard -> Re: DM10A Motion sensor by michael@shed.com -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chuck Rice -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by michael@shed.com -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chad A Gard -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chad A Gard -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chad A Gard -> XTension Demo ? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by joe -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by matthew mcglynn -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Chad A Gard -> Re: XTension Demo ? by Chad A Gard -> Re: XTension Demo ? by sean@techconsulting.com -> Re: XTension Demo ? by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie by Steve Fyfe -> Re: XTension Demo ? by Keelan Lightfoot -> Re: XTension Demo ? by "Nate Gardner" -> port juggler by Eugene.Mosqueda.97@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG (Eugene Mosqueda 97) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 06:39:28 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: DM10A Motion sensor Another problem is that you have all the X10 traffic on the powerline for all those ONs and OFFs. I gave up on using DM10s anywhere there is constant movement, such as inside the house. Rather than block the DM10, would it be easier to either use an AC-DC power cube to power the DM10 through a connector (a modification to the DM10) and then turn the power to the DM10 ON only when you want to detect motion or, plug the receiver into a relay module and only turn ON the receiver when you want to detect motion? I haven't tested this last one, so I don't know if a receiver will transmit X10 signals through the relay (it should, but politicians should be ethical too :^). Phil >Hi Andre, > >>I have a DM10A motion detector (A2) on the back deck to detect any >>intruders at night. >>... >>This ends up being several 100 times a day >>with the kids. Is there a way to activate this motion detector only >>during the hours I want it to without having all those logs? > >I have the same issue with my DM10s -- they trigger every 30-60 seconds >while movement is present, which can lead to a very full log file(!) > >I set my logging level to exceptions only, and use the "write log" verb in >scripts which should add entries to the log. This lets *me* decide what's >important enough to be logged. Only when I'm debugging a new script or >other database modification do I change the logging option to "all" or >"database items only." > >One other solution would be to avoid using the block command altogether. >Rather, check the time in the on script for the motion sensor before >sending the turnon for the light. You'll still get the "received on >command" entries in the log file, but at least you won't get the "blocked >on command" entries as well. > >-- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 06:57:53 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Advanced Question from a Newbie Hideho all. Here's an interesting little quandry I'm thinking about..... I have an extensive CD collection (I was a music composition major), and it is all entered into a database (I am a database developer, web designer, and AV guy now) now. What I would like to do is purchase 3 Yamaha CDM-900's (They're a 110 +1 disk megachanger that can be daisy chained. I'd actually like 4, but I'm not sure if you can chain more than 3 many together...) and put them in my "automation closet." They have an "I/O Remote Port for Custom Installation" that I would like to send commands to directly from my database. So it would work like this: I push a button on one of my X10 remotes (and definately my UR24A), and that triggers an applescript that brings my DB to the front, and sends the commands to prepare the CDM 900's to except commands. Perhaps I'll make a macro that will also switch imputs on my TV to the computer, although I'd need to get an NTSC or PAL video card first. Then, I could search my database, push a button next to the track that I want to hear, and it would send the commands to the "I/O port for custom installation" on the CDM900's and the disk would start to play, and an entry will be put in the Xtension log. So, basically, am I a freak? And where would I go to get specs on the communication protocol that the "I/O Remote Port for Custom Installation" needs? And has anyone ever undertaken this sort of thing? Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 07:25:09 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: DM10A Motion sensor Phil Pedersen wrote: > > Another problem is that you have all the X10 traffic on the powerline for > all those ONs and OFFs. I gave up on using DM10s anywhere there is > constant movement, such as inside the house. > > Rather than block the DM10, would it be easier to either use an AC-DC power > cube to power the DM10 through a connector (a modification to the DM10) and > then turn the power to the DM10 ON only when you want to detect motion or, > plug the receiver into a relay module and only turn ON the receiver when > you want to detect motion? I haven't tested this last one, so I don't know > if a receiver will transmit X10 signals through the relay (it should, but > politicians should be ethical too :^). > Hi Folks, You can certainly use the old Appliance module to enable/disable other X-10 modules ! But do remember not to try this with a Lamp module or any other dimmable control. Over the years, I've heard of some very interesting combinations of modules, from 'combination locks' to things like the above. Also, has anyone found a good way to use the new 'set logging' verb? It should be useful for keeping chatter out of the Log Window when you don't want it... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 08:05:14 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie At 6:53 AM -0700 7/28/98, Chad A Gard wrote: > Hideho all. > Here's an interesting little quandry I'm thinking about..... > I have an extensive CD collection (I was a music composition > major), and it is all entered into a database (I am a database developer, > web designer, and AV guy now) now. What I would like to do is purchase 3 > Yamaha CDM-900's > I do not know about the Yamaha units, but if you went with the Sony 200 or 300 disk changers, you could use the S-Link box (See: ) He does not sell Mac Software, but he is working with a Mac programmer at who is supposed to be releasing the mac controller real soon now. - -Chuck- __________________________________________________________________________ Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 08:13:20 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie Hello Chad, There are several ways you can do this, with or without the 'I/O Remote Port'... If you want to use this port, it will be necessary in any case to discover the 'protocol' of that port. If we know the protocol, we can create an applet like the one for the WX200/Davis weather stations, and send it commands from scripts, and have it send data ? to XTension. The applet could run on the same Mac, but of course, you're running out of serial ports... putting the applet on another (networked) Mac is probably cheaper than port expansion cards. Another method is to use the SmartLinc X-10 to IR box. Surely the CD players will respond to IR commands? One of the things that comes to mind at first is that you have 300 CDs, and you want to be able to select any one, or any sequence. This could be a real bother if you don't think of some way of cutting down on the absolute number of commands that you have to create. For example, do you make buttons for "1", "2" etc, or do you make buttons like "Spanish Guitar", and "Randomize"...? These questions of course have a lot to do with your own personal preferences, but I believe that it is possible to come up with a 'philosophy' of use that would be helpful to all of us who might want to do something similar. good thread....any good ideas ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 08:19:22 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie Chad A Gard said on 7/28/98 9:53 AM >where would I go to get specs on >the communication protocol that the "I/O Remote Port for Custom >Installation" needs? >And has anyone ever undertaken this sort of thing? The following message was on this list earlier this month. I have no idea if Yahamha uses s-link, or if that is a Sony only thing. But, this is a start... >s-link product > >Sun, Jul 12, 1998 >The best product I have found for s-link is at http://www.nirvis.com, a pic >s-link/serial/IR interface. There is a kit or assembled device for under >$200. They provide plenty of software. s-link reverse engineered docs can >be found at >http://www.cc.gatech.edu/people/home/bigdave/cdplayer/control-a1.txt. > >Good stuff. > >Thanks, >Greg > > _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 08:32:52 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie Hi Chad, I'd ask a dealer about the I/O port; probably a high end dealer who also does home theater installations. I'm willing to bet it's an RS-232 port with a simple protocol. The dealer should be able to give you a number for service manual ordering. They should be able to give you a programming guide. Since the CDM900 also has an IR remote control, you might think about: Home Automation Systems sells a contact closure to IR controller that might allow you to use X10 to control relays which then control the IR signals. Sort of Rube Goldberg, not particularly elegant, and pricey; but it's probably all off the shelf hardware with little development on your part. The IR controller is about $249 and a 16 relay X10-controlled moduel is $200 from HAS. Phil > > I push a button on one of my X10 remotes (and definately my UR24A), >and that triggers an applescript that brings my DB to the front, and sends >the commands to prepare the CDM 900's to except commands. Perhaps I'll >make a macro that will also switch imputs on my TV to the computer, >although I'd need to get an NTSC or PAL video card first. Then, I could >search my database, push a button next to the track that I want to hear, >and it would send the commands to the "I/O port for custom installation" on >the CDM900's and the disk would start to play, and an entry will be put in >the Xtension log. > > So, basically, am I a freak? And where would I go to get specs on >the communication protocol that the "I/O Remote Port for Custom >Installation" needs? >And has anyone ever undertaken this sort of thing? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 09:09:17 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie >Hello Chad, > >There are several ways you can do this, with or without >the 'I/O Remote Port'... > >If you want to use this port, it will be necessary in >any case to discover the 'protocol' of that port. > >If we know the protocol, we can create an applet like >the one for the WX200/Davis weather stations, and >send it commands from scripts, and have it send data ? >to XTension. > Yes, that was basically the kind of things I had in mind. Now, how do we get the protocol? I can't find anything on Yamaha's website about technical info that detailed, and the two authorized dealer/service centers here in indy don't have that info. I'm not sure if that's because it is too new or too specialized. I also don't know if the I/O remote port is RS239 or some propriatary thing. I'm not going to order a changer until I get my hands on the protocol and see if doing this is concievable. >The applet could run on the same Mac, but of course, you're >running out of serial ports... putting the applet on another >(networked) Mac is probably cheaper than port expansion cards. Actually, I have an LC475 earmarked just for this. > >Another method is to use the SmartLinc X-10 to IR box. >Surely the CD players will respond to IR commands? > Yes, they would respond to IR commands. I was thinking that sending from the serial port would be faster, since I could just send commands from FMP via applescript? There also might be additional commands available to the expansion port, but I won't know until I can get my hands on the protocal. >One of the things that comes to mind at first is that you >have 300 CDs, and you want to be able to select any one, >or any sequence. This could be a real bother if you don't >think of some way of cutting down on the absolute number >of commands that you have to create. > >For example, do you make buttons for "1", "2" etc, or do >you make buttons like "Spanish Guitar", and "Randomize"...? Actually, what I was thinking, I have a relational DB in FMP, with all the tracks related to disks, etc. So, if I could put a button in the portal next to the track info that just sends the command to play track X on disk Y that would be fine. If I wanted to randomize I could do that with randomize function already available on the changers. I didn't think about playing by genre though.... > >These questions of course have a lot to do with your own >personal preferences, but I believe that it is possible to >come up with a 'philosophy' of use that would be helpful >to all of us who might want to do something similar. I agree. I know pioneer lets you chain up to 3 of their 100 disk changers, and (although Sony audio products suck) sony makes a huge changer (300 disks?) as well. The same "philosophy" could be used for implementation regardless of individual preferences and hardware, right? > >good thread....any good ideas ? >michael Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 09:09:40 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie >Hi Chad, > >I'd ask a dealer about the I/O port; probably a high end dealer who also >does home theater installations. I'm willing to bet it's an RS-232 port >with a simple protocol. The dealer should be able to give you a number for >service manual ordering. They should be able to give you a programming >guide. > >Since the CDM900 also has an IR remote control, you might think about: >Home Automation Systems sells a contact closure to IR controller that might >allow you to use X10 to control relays which then control the IR signals. >Sort of Rube Goldberg, not particularly elegant, and pricey; but it's >probably all off the shelf hardware with little development on your part. >The IR controller is about $249 and a 16 relay X10-controlled moduel is >$200 from HAS. > >Phil That would allow me to control them at the basic level. I suppose I could use the remote with any of the variety of IR distribution solutions that are out there. But the key thing I want to be able to do is to search my database for a track, click a button, and hear the CD. So the ability to control them from the computer would be preferable. This may be why I'm a freak. I dunno. Everybody in the office thinks I am. If I had the money I'd do an AMX Viewpoint system for my whole house. But who has that kind of money? Plus I'd have to take the programming class (although I'm trying to get that through work anyway ;) ) in Dallas. Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 09:11:02 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie >At 6:53 AM -0700 7/28/98, Chad A Gard wrote: > > >> Hideho all. >> Here's an interesting little quandry I'm thinking about..... >> I have an extensive CD collection (I was a music composition >> major), and it is all entered into a database (I am a database developer, >> web designer, and AV guy now) now. What I would like to do is purchase 3 >> Yamaha CDM-900's >> < > >I do not know about the Yamaha units, but if you went with the Sony >200 or 300 disk changers, you could use the S-Link box >(See: <) He does not sell Mac Software, but >he is working with a Mac programmer at < >who is supposed to be releasing the mac controller real soon now. >-Chuck- > Actually, I won't go with any Sony audio products. Too little quality control and too many bad experiences. I suppose being an AV guy during my "day job" makes me extra picky. Now, Sony display devices are exceptional. Why they can't improve their audio devices with the same philosophy I don't know. As far as the S-Link box, it sounds like it could be used to control the Yamaha's, too, since it doesn't seem to be brand specific, although it might have to do it through IR... Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 09:17:22 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: XTension Demo ? Hi Folks, I've been messing around with the website, and one of the things that is sore behind is the XTension Demo package. Another loose end is the CP290 version (aka XTension Lite). I have taken the CP290 version off the site, and removed references to it. (or will) I have had so much trouble with folks who thought that they really wanted the CP290 version, but later found that it wasn't really, and since it doesn't 'download', it is different that what they're used to...etc... So I've just stopped selling it except to those few who have convinced me that they understand the limitations. ( about two ) SO, I am thinking about offering the CP290 version as the DEMO, and just giving it away.... My problem is that I know that it will generate a lot of mail/phone support that I just can't afford. I offered this last year with version 1.6.1, but I received twenty 'calls' for this version for every one paid copy... I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version without causing such trouble, and how to do this without appearing too nasty... :-) thanks michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 09:39:38 -0700 From: joe Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie > So, basically, am I a freak? And where would I go to get specs on >the communication protocol that the "I/O Remote Port for Custom >Installation" needs? >And has anyone ever undertaken this sort of thing? What you are describing is something that I would like to do eventually. I have created a FileMaker Pro database for my CD and video collection. What I'd like to know is rather than having to manually input the CD title and track information for the FileMaker database, is there a way to import the information from the Apple CD Audio Player into a FileMaker database? Right now I am inputting the information in two places. What kind of database program did you use for your collection? This is not really an X-10 question so we can take it off list if you prefer. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:15:51 -0700 From: matthew mcglynn Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie > is there a way to > import the information from the Apple CD Audio Player into a FileMaker > database? This is for sure not an X-10 question but I have a great answer for you. Get MacDISCO [1], which is scriptable, and write an AppleScript or Frontier script to suck the artist/title/track data out of MacDISCO and populate your database of choice. If there are any UNIX geeks out there remember that you could also dump this data to SQL 'insert' statements and import them into something like MySQL (www.tcx.se) for a robust UNIX-based solution. Back to the Mac... importing the text data from MacDISCO is really easy; just open the app's scripting dictionary and the verbs will be obvious. Then you just need to write the code to send the data to Filemaker Pro. I know there are a lot of tools to make Frontier/FMP integration easier... but I know you can do it from AppleScript as well. [1] MacDISCO is essentially a high-octane version of the Apple CD Audio player. The front-end is similar, but on the back end it downloads track data from an Internet-accessible database. Just put in your CD, hit cmd-R for "recognize" or some such, and if your CD is any of the 15,000+ in the database, the text data automatically populates the player (after which it is stored locally, and is accessible via the scripting API). Since the player is officially in alpha, you have to request the installer file from the author. But this gets you exactly what you want: the ability to populate a database, _any_ database, without retyping all your CD titles. (That's how I got on the list of the top 100 DISCO contributors -- I wrote a script that used a CD's UPC code to _import_ track data from one online database, populate the DISCO GUI, and then save the track data back to the DISCO database.) The other cool thing about DISCO's scripting ability is the ability to create meaningless CGIs that tell you what I'm listening to right now: - -- matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:43:57 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie >> So, basically, am I a freak? And where would I go to get specs on >>the communication protocol that the "I/O Remote Port for Custom >>Installation" needs? >>And has anyone ever undertaken this sort of thing? > >What you are describing is something that I would like to do eventually. >I have created a FileMaker Pro database for my CD and video collection. >What I'd like to know is rather than having to manually input the CD >title and track information for the FileMaker database, is there a way to >import the information from the Apple CD Audio Player into a FileMaker >database? Right now I am inputting the information in two places. What >kind of database program did you use for your collection? > >This is not really an X-10 question so we can take it off list if you >prefer. >Joe > I used FileMaker Pro for mine, too. Basically, I have a structure like this: Disks Tracks Loans Catalog #(mine) --< Catalog # Loaned To Title Track Title Loan Date Location Artist/condcuctor Due Date Label Ensemble Phone Number Puchase Price Playing Time Email Genre Return Date Loaned # ------------------------------< Loan # Label # (the labels Cat. #) Cover Picture - --< = One to many relationship with the key fields at each end of the line. This, of course, is a simplified structure. What I'm wanting to do is put a button in the portal with the tracks that you can click on, and that track will play on the Yamaha CD changers (or the pioneer or the Sony if you must. I personally want the Yamahas). As far as a way to have the info entered automatically from the CD, there is no direct way. You can use the CDDB , and I know it is possible to import this data into FMP. As a matter of fact, there is a feature in the new version of Audiofile that is supposed to do this. I don't use audiofile because I like my own designs better. I also like to format my info my own way, as opposed to using the cddb format, so I haven't really looked into this possibility. But I suppose if we asked the people at spinfree really nicely they might be willing to explain how they did it. Or we could spend the $60 for audiofile and the cddb thingy. OK, I should have taken that off the list. But, I'll get back on now: I would love to collaborate with someone who has the expertise on the serial interface side to produce a nice DB that could link to the popular CD changers. I'm sure we could get some decent shareware sales, maybe even $30/year! But better than that, just think how much we could improve the home automation scene! Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:44:16 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? > >I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version >without causing such trouble, and how to do this without >appearing too nasty... :-) Most freeware doesn't come with support.... Or just call it a "Beta," which never comes with tech support. I'm sure if you just explain your plight nicely, like you did here, above the link to download it, in the readme, on the about screen, with the contact for tech support info, etc. people will understand... Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:47:30 -0700 From: sean@techconsulting.com Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? > I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version > without causing such trouble, and how to do this without > appearing too nasty... :-) Hi Michael, How about this: 1. Make it freely downloadable 2. Indicate clearly up front: "no payee, no supportee" 3. Make sure the list address and its search form are clearly available so that if people have questions, they can address your vast army of volunteer help without bugging you. That way, people can play, it doesn't burden you, and potential customers are put in contact with those who already know and love XTension. Sean _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:49:53 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? Sand Hill Engineering said on 7/28/98 12:18 PM >I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version >without causing such trouble, and how to do this without >appearing too nasty... :-) If it were me, I would offer a demo which is the same as the CM11 or LynX version but with the serial comm disabled in a way so it could not be enabled without a serial number. Either that, or let the demo user enable serial comm, but have it automatically disabled after 10 minutes - each time they start the demo, they could get another 10 minutes. Then I would eliminate the CP290 version altogether. If you do that, you could add a link to your home page saying "if you have a CP290, click here". On the page that link leads to, give a sales pitch for why 2-way interfaces are so much better than a cp290. Use that as a basis for explaining why the cp290 is no longer supported, and why every cp290 owner should upgrade to a 2-way interface. My reasoning for this is that the main advantage the cp290 has is that it can store macros so it can be disconnected from the computer. But since XTension does not support this feature, there is no real value to an XTension version for the cp290. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 11:51:22 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Advanced Question from a Newbie joe said on 7/28/98 12:50 PM >What you are describing is something that I would like to do eventually. >I have created a FileMaker Pro database for my CD and video collection. >What I'd like to know is rather than having to manually input the CD >title and track information for the FileMaker database, is there a way to >import the information from the Apple CD Audio Player into a FileMaker >database? I too have a FM Pro db of my CD collection that I hope, one day, will be the basis for an automated CD player system. I have been collecting information on this topic for a while (until my wallet gets as big as my ideas). Here are a couple of messages you might find interesting: >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 22:42:35 -0400 >From: EvangeList >To: "Macway" >Subject: Followup - CD Remote Programs Request >Message-ID: <199708030239.TAA14944@apple.com> > >This follow-up is from: > >Owen W. Linzmayer > >Thanks to everyone who has responded to my recent request for CD Remote >Programs files. My mailbox has been overflowing with files. I had >promised to merge all the files I received and make the comprehensive >database available to the public for use with AppleCD Audio Player, but I >have decided not to follow through. However, I think you'll appreciate >why. > >First of all, I learned that CD Remote Programs can hold information for >only 1,300 discs. Bummer. > >However, several Evangelistas directed me to a free, comprehensive >database called CDDB with 75,000 entries that can >be accessed on an as-needed basis via the Internet, or downloaded to your >computer (the file is about 80MB large). Sounds great? It is, but >currently there's no Mac CD player that can make use of this data. Based >upon the tremendous enthusiasm Evangelistas have shown for my idea, it's >clear that there's a great shareware opportunity for a capable Mac >programmer. Anybody interested in taking on this project? > >All's not lost, however, as an Apple engineer named Peter Bierman is >working on a similar project called Dynamic Internet Shared CD Overviews, >or DISCO: > > > >The beta DISCO database currently contains less than 10,000 entries, but >when it is released to the public (ETA is this summer), it's sure to grow >quickly. > >So once again, let me thank those who submitted their CD Remote Programs >files. Your effort is greatly appreciated, but further submissions are no >longer desired. I've offered all of the existing submissions to Peter >Bierman for inclusion in the DISCO database which I hope will be >finalized soon. > >________________ >Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out: >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 97 11:58:05 -0800 >From: EvangeList >Subject: Tidbit - Use the Internet to Get Audio CD Titles > >This tidbit is from: > >Dave Bailey, > >I recently came across the killer app for titling audio CDs in your Mac >if you have an internet connection. > >One of the things I enjoy about using Macintosh is the seamless >integration of different media types. One of these media types is Audio >CDs. > >I often use audio CDs for presentations, or just listening while I get >caught up on e-mail. > >One problem I run into is that when I insert an audio CD into the Mac, >the player software doesn't know what the title of CD or titles of the >songs are. The Mac will save the names if you type them in, but who has >time for that? > >I've found a piece of software that makes it insanely easy to input the >CD audio titles with virtually no effort, automatically. > >Download this software: > >x> > >In combination with Mac OS Runtime for Java (part of Mac OS 8) this >little jewel will connect to a network of servers on the internet (you >can choose a server near you for maximum response time) and match the CD >you insert with a huge database of titles (I haven't stumped it yet). > >Bascially, you insert the CD, select "Get Disk Info" (or press >command-K), and then save the results to your Mac. > >After you do this with a few of your audio CDs, every time you insert >your CDs from that point on (without an internet connection) all the >titles will show up. This makes it very easy to use the CDs for demos, or >to program which titles on the CD you want to listen to. > >I titled 10 CDs in about a minute and a half. Too cool... >__________________________ >Digital Guy Sez: > >FINALLY!!! I have been waiting for somethinglike this to be released for >awhile. I've got some pretty bizzare/obscure imports at home...can't wait >to see if I can "stump the server" myself. > >------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 12:16:02 -0700 From: Keelan Lightfoot Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? >I've been messing around with the website, and one of the >things that is sore behind is the XTension Demo package. > >Another loose end is the CP290 version (aka XTension Lite). > >I have taken the CP290 version off the site, and removed >references to it. (or will) > >I have had so much trouble with folks who thought that they >really wanted the CP290 version, but later found that it >wasn't really, and since it doesn't 'download', it is >different that what they're used to...etc... > >So I've just stopped selling it except to those few who >have convinced me that they understand the limitations. >( about two ) > >SO, I am thinking about offering the CP290 version as the DEMO, >and just giving it away.... > >My problem is that I know that it will generate a lot of >mail/phone support that I just can't afford. > >I offered this last year with version 1.6.1, but I received >twenty 'calls' for this version for every one paid copy... > >I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version >without causing such trouble, and how to do this without >appearing too nasty... :-) Why not do what Apple does with their old software -- Release it as an obselete and unsupported version. It's not being nasty, it's just honestly saying that you don't have the time to support it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 14:25:26 -0700 From: "Nate Gardner" Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? >Sand Hill Engineering said on 7/28/98 12:18 PM > >>I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version >>without causing such trouble, and how to do this without >>appearing too nasty... :-) > >If it were me, I would offer a demo which is the same as the CM11 or LynX >version but with the serial comm disabled in a way so it could not be >enabled without a serial number. Either that, or let the demo user enable >serial comm, but have it automatically disabled after 10 minutes - each >time they start the demo, they could get another 10 minutes. Then I would >eliminate the CP290 version altogether. I've personally never been a fan of crippleware. It tends to annoy you so much you just throw away the software and don't bother with it anymore. If you can't depend on people's honesty, and I'm certainly not saying you should, then enforce some kind of time-out such as a week. Done right a time-out is hard to hack (look at Ircle) and gets people hooked enough that they will buy your stuff. Nathan Gardner University of Colorado: Information Technology Services, Microcomputer Systems Group e-mail: gardnern@colorado.edu web: http://rtt.colorado.edu/~gardnern Denver Broncos, World Champions and the greatest team in the history of sports! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jul 1998 17:16:18 -0700 From: Eugene.Mosqueda.97@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG (Eugene Mosqueda 97) Subject: port juggler Anyone use port juggler with two-way? My two-way works without it. It also will say it sent the signal with it and the red light on the tw lights up. gene ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/29/98 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:44:31 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Book on Applescript by "jonjon.winn" -> Re: Book on Applescript by matthew mcglynn -> New 'DEMO' version by michael@shed.com -> Re: Book on Applescript by "Jerry Prsha" -> CD Changer Control by Chad A Gard -> Re: Book on Applescript by "Mitchell S. Cohen" -> Re: Book on Applescript by Rich Leonard -> Re: Book on Applescript by michael@shed.com -> Re: CD Changer Control by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Book on Applescript by Steve Fyfe -> Re: CD Changer Control by Chuck Rice -> Re: Book on Applescript by "Jerry Prsha" -> Re: XTension Demo ? by Wedge@mindless.com -> Re: Book on Applescript by Wedge@mindless.com -> Re: Book on Applescript by Ian Brumell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 09:17:42 -0700 From: "jonjon.winn" Subject: Book on Applescript Hello All! Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? I am new to this and think it would help me a lot. Thanks, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 10:10:58 -0700 From: matthew mcglynn Subject: Re: Book on Applescript At 9:17 AM -0700 on 7/29/98, jonjon.winn wrote: > Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? I am new to this and think > it would help me a lot. Thanks, John Go to amazon.com and search for "trinko". Tom Trinko has written at least two books about AppleScript. One is _Applied Mac Scripting_, which may be out of print. It's a great book. The other is _Applescript For Dummies_, which I've never seen. - -- matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 10:11:42 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: New 'DEMO' version Hi Folks, Thanks to your encouragement and advice, I've decided to put up the CP290 version as freeware. I hope that the directions on that page are clear, and that it will generate some list traffic without causing a lot of hotta... For those of you who do have the old CP290, there are 'stories' which make this version valuable as a backup or augmentation to your system. Maybe now I can get the Evangelist List to post it? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 10:36:55 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Re: Book on Applescript - ->Hello All! - ->Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? I am new to this and think - ->it would help me a lot. Thanks, John I've been asking the same. I hear all of this Applescript talk flying around but I don't know the language enough to really do a lot. Xtension does a lot but if you don't know Applescript, it limits it's ability. Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 11:06:37 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: CD Changer Control Hi de ho list. I thought I would give an update on my previous question. Everyone at work thinks I'm a freak for wanting to control a CD changer from my database. But you all seem to think it is cool. After searching arround a bit, and spending lots of time on hold and being forwarded, I talked to a guy at Yamaha's corporate headquarters who just got back from a training session in Japan about the CDM 900 110+1 disk changer. He is also proofreading the service manual. Apparantly, the protocol for the "I/O Remote port for Custom Installation" was going to be cut from this manual and was not going to be made available except to authorized Yamaha dealers who go to some sort of class. However, he was a nice guy and is going to fax the protocol to me (I'm anxiously awaiting now). If the documents he's sending me are detailed enough, I think I can write an applet using the SerialPort Osax to link Filemaker to the Yamaha CD changers. Alternately, if one of the companies making a FileMaker plug-in to access the serial port does so soon, I could just use calculation fields to construct the commands and send them. There are a couple of quid pro quo's I'm concerned with at the moment: 1. the CDM900 can only link two together, so that's 220 CD's. I think that one could install a serial port card, and use 2 per port, so if it was a 4 port card, that would be 880 disks, which should be enough for anyone. Or, if one were to use on machine just to control the CDM900's, and had an ethernet card to network with the other machines in the house, there would be both the modem port and printer port available, since XTension would be running on a different machine, which meant 440 disks, which is about what I need. 2. This would be the most ambitous applescript project I've ever undertaken, if indeed it is possible to do with applescript. Idealy I would write a FileMaker pluggin that would basically be a CDM900 driver. That way I could also write a pluggin for the Pioneer and Sony models and use the same front end DB in fileMaker, which may prove a little more flexible should I want to sell this mess. I would also be able to compile it for windows, which could be a plus. The only problem here is I don't know C or C++, which I guess is a big problem as that's the only way to write a FMP Plugin. 3. I do know a little java. Perhaps I could augment that knowledge and write a Java backend. I don't know if Java can access serial or comm ports as such, as I've only used it with http and ftp protocols, instead of spewing raw data ot the serial port. Basically that's where I am now. Does anyone who's written applets to speak with serial devices have any suggestions. I know it's been done (ie, the WX200 tutorial on the Sand Hill site, but that used it's own OSAX), and would appreciate any tips and pointers from those who've been there. TTFN Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:07:52 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: Book on Applescript I just did a quick search at Amazon, and was sad to see my two favorite books (Tao of Applescript and Danny Goodman's book) both out of print. Tao was a great book for the beginner programmer. Goodman's book was a good reference guide. Tao was also available through BMUG (www.bmug.com), who may still have copies. There are three good PDFs on AppleScript at: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/mac.html The Language Guide (400 pages) is a very good reference, but doesn't offer good examples. The Scripting Additions guide has info on most standard additions not covered in the language guide. Applescript Finder Guide is on scripting the Finder. I'm not familiar with any of the books available through Amazon. Apple has some links to Applescript-related sites at: http://applescript.apple.com/default.html The best way I've found to learn AppleScript is by example. Code is generally very human-readable. You can find sample scripts on the net for just about any scriptable application. I know Michael has some examples at www.shed.com. I have a few small XTension-related scripts on my site (www.msystems.com/homeauto/). MacOS 8.5 will have a major update to AppleScript. Hopefully with it will come a new book or two. ...Mitch >->Hello All! >->Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? I am new to this and >think >->it would help me a lot. Thanks, John > > > I've been asking the same. I hear all of this Applescript talk flying >around but I don't know the language enough to really do a lot. Xtension >does a lot but if you don't know Applescript, it limits it's ability. > >Jerry >----------------------------------- >Jerry's Pond Page >St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. >http://idt.net/~jprsha/ > > - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:14:24 -0700 From: Rich Leonard Subject: Re: Book on Applescript Danny Goodman has a book on Applescript (don't know about availability) I think he also has a web site. You also might search the web - Apple has some pages and there is also www.scriptweb.com. On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:17:22 -0500 jonjon.winn@mail.utexas.edu (jonjon.winn) wrote: >Hello All! >Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? I am new to this and think >it would help me a lot. Thanks, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:33:18 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Book on Applescript Hi Folks, AppleScript for Dummies is commonly at book stores in the ..Dummies section. The Danny Goodman book was the 'first', but I haven't seen it but as a 'remainder'. But, I would suggest that all of these books are directed at 'real' programming, and perhaps are too much for most hapless purchasers. AppleScript, like any other 'language' is best learned first by example, and then later, you decide whether you want to just be able to converse, or whether you want to become a philologist or lexicographer. Looking at the whole thing, it is very daunting. It is not a simple language with only a few verbs. It is a serious 'language', capable of letting you do anything you could want with your Mac. Much much more than you need for XTension. And it is constantly changing ! But, what language do we ever learn by first studying the verbs and nouns ? Don't we always learn by example first ? Why? Because it is so much easier to emulate what someone else (already verbal) says.... long yellow thing...banana... ...hungry... I have always been a programmer, and definitely have always been daunted by a new language until I have been given some real rea$on to learn it. Starting with XTension, we have a natural 'reason'. Things which are common to us. Just like you might have learned to write your name to the screen in Basic, you now want to turn on lights and manage the Jacuzzi. Let's start there. Say what it is that you want to say in English. Then begin to translate that into AppleScript (ala XTension). By having a 'goal', it's much easier to ignore things which don't matter, and just get to the part that lets you write your name to the screen. I have been watching all of you as you have gotten into this thing, and at the same time, I've been learning a bit myself. It is evident that it doesn't take long before you learn the few simple things with XTension and scripting, but after that, it seems that we all want to learn more about what could be done with the whole thing. So you start looking for a 'book'. And all the books you find are oriented at things like publishing, and internet and perhaps FileMaker etc. I would be amenable to putting up a web page(s) that would help folks get into AppleScript, particularly 'bent' toward usefulness with XTension. But this is not a simple task, and would certainly require a lot of user feedback.... might as well write a book about XTension, AppleScript, and Home Automation. I consider it a good project, anyone game ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:50:33 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: CD Changer Control Chad A Gard said on 7/29/98 2:09 PM >2. This would be the most ambitous applescript project I've ever >undertaken, if indeed it is possible to do with applescript. Idealy I >would write a FileMaker pluggin that would basically be a CDM900 driver. >That way I could also write a pluggin for the Pioneer and Sony models and >use the same front end DB in fileMaker, which may prove a little more >flexible should I want to sell this mess. I would also be able to compile >it for windows, which could be a plus. The only problem here is I don't >know C or C++, which I guess is a big problem as that's the only way to >write a FMP Plugin. Another possibility is REALBasic, rather than C or C++. I have no idea if you can do an FMP plugin with RB, though. I would guess not. But you could do the user interface in RB and have it get the data from FMP, format it into the proper protocol, and send it to the CD changer. Check out www.realsoftware.com. _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:51:35 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Book on Applescript > Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? "The Tao of AppleScript" "The Complete AppleScript Handbook" by Danny Goodman (may be out of print) "AppleScript Language Guide" by Apple, download a PDF for free from www.apple.com "AppleScript Finder Guide" by Apple, also a free PDF on their web site not a book, but a good reference is: AppleScript Source Book at The 2 PDFs from Apple are references, they do not have a tutorial. The Finder one describes how to script the Finder, the other is a general AS reference. The 2 books at the top are meant for learning AS. They may be out of print, though. Sometimes www.amazon.com can find books that are out of print. I have not seen the Tao... book, but it gets strong recommendations. I have the Handbook... and it is a decent intro, but it is hard to lookup things in there and it is a bit dated (both these books were first published when AS was new). HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:51:55 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: CD Changer Control At 11:09 AM -0700 7/29/98, Chad A Gard wrote: > 3. I do know a little java. Perhaps I could augment that knowledge and > write a Java backend. I don't know if Java can access serial or comm ports > as such, as I've only used it with http and ftp protocols, instead of > spewing raw data ot the serial port. Take a look at They have a Java serial package that runs on Macs, PCs, and Unix. The pasic support is $50 per OS, or the professional support it $250 per platform. You only pay for the developer seat. There are no runtime or per user charges. I do not work for them or have any interest in the company, except I have a developers seat. -Chuck- __________________________________________________________________________ Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:58:09 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Re: Book on Applescript - ->I just did a quick search at Amazon, and was sad to see my two favorite - ->books (Tao of Applescript and Danny Goodman's book) both out of print. - ->Tao was a great book for the beginner programmer. Goodman's book was a - ->good reference guide. Tao was also available through BMUG - ->(www.bmug.com), who may still have copies. The books that I have are, on a scale of one to ten starting at about a 5. I know 1-2 stuff but that level 3-4 I can't seem to find. I need to know if I can change variables in a script while it's running. That would make scripting with XTension really easy for me and shorten script immensely! Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 17:45:37 -0700 From: Wedge@mindless.com Subject: Re: XTension Demo ? michael@shed.com wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I've been messing around with the website, and one of the > things that is sore behind is the XTension Demo package. > > My problem is that I know that it will generate a lot of > mail/phone support that I just can't afford. > > I offered this last year with version 1.6.1, but I received > twenty 'calls' for this version for every one paid copy... > > I'm asking for some help here. How can I offer this version > without causing such trouble, and how to do this without > appearing too nasty... :-) > > thanks > michael Michael, Your XTension Demo is what got me into HA. I was interested and nosed around a bit, but it was the ability to try your program and see if a few ideas I had would work or not, that got me to actually put some money out to buy the program, connector, etc. I think having a good, working demo is VERY important and I am grateful that you had one when I came hunting.... I know nothing about the CP290 version you spoke of, but I would like to see the 1.7.4 demo upgraded along with the real program.... Many thanks, Semper Fi, James ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 17:46:59 -0700 From: Wedge@mindless.com Subject: Re: Book on Applescript michael@shed.com wrote: > Hi Folks, > > AppleScript for Dummies is commonly at book stores in > the ..Dummies section. > [snip] > I consider it a good project, anyone game ? > michael I'll be your Dummy! Semper Fi, James ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1998 18:47:37 -0700 From: Ian Brumell Subject: Re: Book on Applescript >I would be amenable to putting up a web page(s) that would >help folks get into AppleScript, particularly 'bent' toward >usefulness with XTension. > >But this is not a simple task, and would certainly require >a lot of user feedback.... might as well write a book about >XTension, AppleScript, and Home Automation. > >I consider it a good project, anyone game ? >michael One of the reasons I have been slow to become involved with XTension more deeply is my intimidation with Applescript. This sounds like a great idea. Ian Brumell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/30/98 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:44:34 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: CD Changer Control by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Book on Applescript by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: CD Changer Control by Mark Hartman -> Re: CD Changer Control by Chad A Gard -> Re: CD Changer Control by Chad A Gard -> Re: CD Changer Control by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> totalControl looks GREAT by Dan Schumacher -> Re: Book on Applescript by Steve Fyfe -> Re: CD Changer Control by "Mitchell S. Cohen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 05:15:08 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: CD Changer Control Chad A Gard wrote on Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:09:47 -0500: > This would be the most ambitous applescript project I've ever > undertaken Very impressive project indeed. > The only problem here is I don't > know C or C++, which I guess is a big problem as that's the only way to > write a FMP Plugin. > I do know a little java. Perhaps I could augment that knowledge and > write a Java backend. I don't know if Java can access serial or comm ports > as such, as I've only used it with http and ftp protocols, instead of > spewing raw data ot the serial port. As far as the Mac is concerned, the natural way to access serial ports is Pascal. You don't need to know Pascal very well in general, the main routines for talking with the serial port are well described and documented in "Inside Macintosh:Devices" . You just have to make your adaptations. Just a question: what is the price of the CDM 900 ? Good luck, Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 06:36:00 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: Book on Applescript on Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:17:22 -0500 John (jonjon.winn@mail.utexas.edu) and others asked: > Does anyone know of a good book on Applescript? The good Web page for books on AppleScript is at: http://www.applescript.apple.com/books.html Mitchell S. Cohen wrote on Wed, 29 Jul 98 15:07:27 -0400: > I just did a quick search at Amazon, and was sad to see my two favorite > books (Tao of Applescript and Danny Goodman's book) both out of print. Yes I agree the Danny Goodman's book is surely the best one. But you can get up-to-date good news about it's availability, from Danny Goodman himself, following the above link at: http://www.dannyg.com/ - --------------------- Q. Where can I buy your AppleScript book Availability: Unfortunately, the publisher is out of stock and will not be reprinting more copies........ News Flash (24 July 1998)... Reprints of the second edition are now scheduled to be available on September 28, 1998. Watch this space for a future link to the on-line order site. - --------------------- Only one month to jump to level 5, Jerry :=) Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 07:42:43 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: CD Changer Control >As far as the Mac is concerned, the natural way to access serial ports >is Pascal. You don't need to know Pascal very well in general, the main >routines for talking with the serial port are well described and >documented in "Inside Macintosh:Devices" . You just have to make your >adaptations. I should point out here that the Communications Toolbox (documented in "Inside the Macintosh Communications Toolbox") is the way that Apple currently recommends to access communications ports, because it provides a standard interface. Especially if you are considering using multiple ports on a third-party serial card, I strongly recommend that you NOT attempt to use the low-level IM:Devices calls, but instead use the CTB. I have written countless programs to communicate with serial devices on the Mac; believe me, the low-level stuff is not worth the hassle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 07:54:03 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: CD Changer Control >Chad A Gard wrote on Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:09:47 -0500: > > > This would be the most ambitous applescript project I've ever > > undertaken > >Very impressive project indeed. > > > The only problem here is I don't > > know C or C++, which I guess is a big problem as that's the only way to > > write a FMP Plugin. > > I do know a little java. Perhaps I could augment that knowledge and > > write a Java backend. I don't know if Java can access serial or comm ports > > as such, as I've only used it with http and ftp protocols, instead of > > spewing raw data ot the serial port. > > As far as the Mac is concerned, the natural way to access serial ports >is Pascal. You don't need to know Pascal very well in general, the main >routines for talking with the serial port are well described and >documented in "Inside Macintosh:Devices" . You just have to make your >adaptations. > Hmmmm. Don't know pascal, either. Chuck Rice did point me to some Java classes to access the serial port < that look promising, although my Java thoughts were really for another iteration for after when (if) I get this working per my original plan. The reason I mentioned C/C++ is because the FileMaker plugin API is C/C++. I am planning to take a Pascal course soon, though (free tuition is a bennefit of my job....I'm working on my Master's in Music Composition, but thought I would take some computer science classes, since that's where I make my money). I also received info from the applescript list about a soon-to-be-released PCI card that is basically an applescriptable learning remote with 7 emmitters and an input for a Xantec receiver < that looks cool, although after further research it probably won't work for this project. So I'll have to stick with the serial port. I did privately mail someone who helped design it, though. The other problem I have: this thing is so new that the service manual and such don't exist yet. I did get the guy at Yamaha to fax me the commands to send through the "custom" port, but not the actual protocol itself. So I don't know the baud rate, stop bits, handshaking........ I may need to spend more time on hold. Or wait 5 weeks until the service manuals are printed and spend $18 on one. I may need to wait that long to be able to get a changer, anyway. When I started this inquiry, I had no idea the thing was that new. There was no indication on their website that the CDM 900 was a brand new thing. > Just a question: what is the price of the CDM 900 ? More than the price, availability seems to be the problem. If I continue on this little project I'm going to have to buy at least one soon, right? After all, how do you debug if you don't have the hardware to test ;). Anyway, my dealer here in Indianapolis said they will sell it for $399, which I considered pretty darn good for a 110 disk changer. Especially if it is of the same quality as most of Yamaha's gear. I think they said it retails for $595. Thanks all! Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 08:07:10 -0700 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: CD Changer Control >>As far as the Mac is concerned, the natural way to access serial ports >>is Pascal. You don't need to know Pascal very well in general, the main >>routines for talking with the serial port are well described and >>documented in "Inside Macintosh:Devices" . You just have to make your >>adaptations. > >I should point out here that the Communications Toolbox (documented in >"Inside the Macintosh Communications Toolbox") is the way that Apple >currently recommends to access communications ports, because it provides >a standard interface. Especially if you are considering using multiple >ports on a third-party serial card, I strongly recommend that you NOT >attempt to use the low-level IM:Devices calls, but instead use the CTB. > >I have written countless programs to communicate with serial devices on >the Mac; believe me, the low-level stuff is not worth the hassle. Actually, my plan is to use the SerialPort Osax, which uses the CTB. Oh, the question I forgot to ask though.... The commands I received from Yamaha are all hex. The SerialPort Osax supports integer, string, real, and data classes. I'm wondering if I should write out the hex as integers or if that will work at all.... Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly. After all, you don't have anything to lose." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 08:34:10 -0700 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: CD Changer Control > I should point out here that the Communications Toolbox (documented in > "Inside the Macintosh Communications Toolbox") is the way that Apple > currently recommends to access communications ports, because it provides > a standard interface. > I have written countless programs to communicate with serial devices on > the Mac; believe me, the low-level stuff is not worth the hassle. You are surely right from the point of view of "good programming". I did the other way just to play :=< Thank you to point out "it's not worth the hassle", for others ... and for me when I'll get tired of playing. Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 08:43:29 -0700 From: Dan Schumacher Subject: totalControl looks GREAT I am VERY interested in the POTENTIAL for a Infra-Red remote control capability for the 3Com PalmPilot / IBM WorkPad. ( http://www.iscomplete.com ) Currently I run my house through X-10 using a Macintosh system and a product called XTension ( http://www.shed.com ). I have been lookin for a cost effective product to function as a portable control unit. One good option is the Lexicon 700-T. But it is VERY pricey. ( http://www.lexicon.com/500t/homeframe.htm ). Rotel also has a unit that looks great ( http://www.rotel.com ), the RR-990. Again, it is VERY pricey. many of the other touch-screen remote-controls for use in home-automation are tied to X-10 signalling, instead of using IR. Also, they are not all that portible. ( http://www.smartlinc.com/1121p.html ). Your current feature set looks good. Maybe one thing to be added would be for control of multi-disc CD players. (i.e. catalogged list of songs/singers). For me personally, I would like it to 'work' with Macintosh (like the new iMac), but understand that that may limit your customer base. I assume that you would need a PC/Mac application to generate Control Screen, Graphics, etc. Thanks, Dan Schumacher ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 10:49:25 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Book on Applescript Ian Brumell said on 7/29/98 9:45 PM >One of the reasons I have been slow to become involved with XTension more >deeply is my intimidation with Applescript. I agree that adding more info on applescript to the XTension web site is a good idea. But I hope that everyone who needs help with scripting XTension will post their questions to this list. If you ask a scripting question, the answers will help lots of people. For those who want to get deeply into applescript, there are other email lists that concentrate on scripting. Some email lists are mentioned on apple's applescript web pages and another list is MACSCRPT. *** To subscribe to this list: Send to: LISTSERV@dartmouth.edu Subject: subscribe Message: subscribe macscrpt There is no discussion of XTension on this list, though. You'ld be better off asking your XTension scripting questions here. No question is too basic. The only stupid question is the one that is not asked. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 1998 18:17:04 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: CD Changer Control >> Just a question: what is the price of the CDM 900 ? > >More than the price, availability seems to be the problem. Out of curiosity, what makes you lean towards the Yamaha changers over Sony? They have three 200-CD changers, at least two of which have S-Link, which is easily serial-adaptable through at least two hardware interfaces. (Yes, you have to spend an extra $200 for the interface, so I suppose if that's your only interface to A/V gear, that's justification if Yamaha is RS-232-ready.) I just hear more people doing this with the Sony changers than anything else. I own neither so have no direct experience. (Personally I own other Sony gear with s-link and when I have some time I will be putting it all together.) - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 7/31/98 Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 18:45:23 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: CD Changer Control by Gunsmoke Engineering -> justa test by michael@shed.com -> Signal Bridges by joe -> X-10 Signal Path by joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jul 1998 08:45:02 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: CD Changer Control > >> Just a question: what is the price of the CDM 900 ? > > > >More than the price, availability seems to be the problem. I wonder if there isn't one issue that's being overlooked: that of longevity of the present CD audio format. Sure, the disks should last forever, but look at what's happening to Laser Disk with DVD right now. The last thing I'd want to have is a stack of 200 disk changers that I couldn't get parts for any longer because someone came out with a 2" recordable CD for 2/3 the price. Just try getting a three year old anything fixed and you'll see what I mean. Almost all of my audio/video equipment is Sony, and I've had only fair reliability so far. The TV has been in the shop twice now for "bad solder joints", and the VCR has made one trip because of a broken part in the tape transport mechanism. This in spite of very light use. And the Laser Disk came to me used after the owner got tired of taking it to the shop for repair (the third time appears to be the charm, since I've had no trouble with it). The most interesting thing I've learned from this thread is the existance of web based music databases, and the possibility of interfacing them to FMP. I sure get tired of typing the disk info, especially when track times have to be scavenged from a player. Now if I could come up with a carosel loader for my CD changer that I could drive with XTension, I'd be in fat city. (There, I managed to work in some XTension content after all ;). Just my $.02... - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jul 1998 11:42:14 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: justa test Hi Folks, Sorry, just testing the list server... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jul 1998 13:37:09 -0700 From: joe Subject: Signal Bridges Are signal bridges compatible to specific types of breaker panel boxes only? I'm getting quotes right now on moving my electrical circuits from fuse boxes to breaker panels. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jul 1998 20:05:12 -0700 From: joe Subject: X-10 Signal Path Does the X-10 signal from a CM11A and other modules travel along the hot wire or neutral wire? Does it matter if the wires are crossed at some juncture in the electrical system? Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject.