Subject: Digest for 5/16/98 Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:45:19 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Smartlink by Al Assid -> Re: Smartlink by Gunsmoke Engineering -> X10Tools & Monitor Mac by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: MacHTTP 2.2 vs X10 Tools by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by michael@shed.com -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by michael@shed.com -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 12:57:01 -0700 From: Al Assid Subject: Smartlink Hi All! I received my Smartlink IR Controller today. The first thing I noticed was the output led was a small slit in an opaque led housing that was obviously planned for stick on application directly on to one device in close proximity to the controller. I plan to use the controller to fill the room with IR to control several devices which don't reside in the same cabinet. Home Automation systems offers a LED blaster for 13.00 which appears to be no more than a LED and a length of wire with a mini jack, so I went to my parts bin and found a high output IR led from Rshack #276-143c and a mini jack. I assembled parts and plugged it into the output port on the back of the Smartlink and bingo! The room filled with signal and all the devices worked no matter which way they faced. I was amazed at the amount of signal from that little LED. This cost me about one third the price of the commercial blaster. The tip of the mini jack goes to the anode of the led, (the long leg of the LED is the Anode +) now for the next step. programing the controller. More later. Al Assid Richardson, Tx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 13:16:59 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Smartlink YeeHaw! Keep up the good work, pioneer Al! The smartlink is next on my list, and any tips you uncover for keeping the cost of accessories down will be a big help. I've noticed that HAS also offers auxilary on/off detectors that pick up either AC or the light from a picture tube, and I wonder if you've given any thought to home brewed versions? Thanks in advance, Scot Marburger At 1:56 PM -0700 on 5/16/98, Al Assid wrote: > Hi All! > I received my Smartlink IR Controller today. The first >thing I noticed > was the output led was a small slit in an opaque led housing >that was > obviously planned for stick on application directly on to one >device in > close proximity to the controller. I plan to use the >controller to fill the > room with IR to control several devices which don't reside in >the same > cabinet. Home Automation systems offers a LED blaster for >13.00 which > appears to be no more than a LED and a length of wire with a >mini jack, so > I went to my parts bin and found a high output IR led from >Rshack #276-143c > and a mini jack. I assembled parts and plugged it into the >output port on > the back of the Smartlink and bingo! The room filled with >signal and all > the devices worked no matter which way they faced. I was >amazed at the > amount of signal from that little LED. This cost me about one >third the > price of the commercial blaster. The tip of the mini jack goes >to the anode > of the led, (the long leg of the LED is the Anode +) now for >the next step. > programing the controller. More later. > > Al Assid > Richardson, Tx - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 13:17:34 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Hi All, After a few false starts, I've managed to get Quid Pro Quo v2.1 up and running on a mac with a cable modem 7x24 internet connection, and have got it talking to XTension via Chuck Shotton's X10Tools plugin (thanks Chuck!). Only problem is the web server (monitor) mac is running XTension in monitor mode, and the host mac with the Lynx is at the end of an ethernet cable. I can toggle units on the monitor mac and see the units change on the host mac when I use XTension directly, but comming in through X10Tools via the web server only toggles the unit on the monitor mac. Somehow the event isn't getting passed on to the host mac with the Lynx. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Scot Marburger - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 13:23:31 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: MacHTTP 2.2 vs X10 Tools Quid Pro Quo does indeed support plugins, and X10Tools by Biap Systems (http://www.biap.com) works with it to provide an interface to XTension. Thanks for the tip! I found the latest version of QPQ at: ftp://ftp.socialeng.com/pub/qpq The Social Engineering web site doesn't mention the free QPQ, just the payware Quid Pro Quo Plus (http://www.socialeng.com) Thanks again, Scot Marburger At 8:02 PM -0700 on 5/15/98, Marcel Rivard wrote: > >Just a quick one: > > > >Am I wasting my time trying to get Chuck Shotten's X10 Tools > >stuff working > >with MacHTTP v2.2? > > > > > Try Quid Pro Quo > > http://billing.cc.umanitoba.ca/default.html > > It supports plug-ins of all kinds..... - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 14:47:13 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Hi Scot, > Somehow the event isn't getting passed on to > the host mac with the Lynx. Yes, there has always been this quirk. This is one thing that I have been trying to enhance. The reason it works this way is that I've not found an easy way of maintaining record of the 'source' of the original AppleEvent. Since almost everything in XTension is done by AppleEvents, it is possible to kick off an event which gets into a loop between the master and the monitor copy of XTension. I've gotten some good suggestions from list members, and it's very near the top of my list, but but but... Until I fix this, it may be that you could 'tell' the 'master' to do things, and let the master tell the monitor... If you're talking over Ethernet, it shouldn't be a detectable delay ? in work, as always michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 14:49:01 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Oh yes, There is also another issue : There may be some things that you want to tell one copy of XTension to do and Not the other... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 15:23:33 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Ahhh, so its an XTension thing. Presumably, if QPQ on the monitor mac kicked off CGIs that manipulated the host mac (a machine remote from the web server), X10 signals could be generated. I still haven't managed to manipulate an application on a remote machine via AppleScript though. I can fire off a script on the remote machine that manipulates the remote application, just can't do it directly. Could this have something to do with having no guest access enabled on either mac in the Sharing Setup control panel? If guest access is enabled I worry (perhaps needlessly?) that another user on the network might access XTension (or worse!). Back to XTension, if the problem is one of creating a race condition, how is it avoided when mouse clicks on the monitor mac trigger actions on the host? Could this same method be implemented to allow X10Tools and other scripts to trigger AppleEvents on a monitor copy of XTension, which in turn trigger actions on the host XTension (sorry if the terminology is incorrect here, I hope you get the idea). As is, both X10Tools and the copy of XTension that talks to the interface (Lynx or CM11) must be on the same mac. That more or less rules out monitoring XTension vie the internet from older machines, since doing internet stuff requires lots of memory and cpu power. Besides, most folks have their faster mac set up as their work machine, which by necessity is also the main inet connection. Thanks for the clarification, Scot Marburger At 2:46 PM -0700 on 5/16/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > Hi Scot, > > > Somehow the event isn't getting passed on to > > the host mac with the Lynx. > > Yes, there has always been this quirk. > > This is one thing that I have been trying to enhance. > The reason it works this way is that I've not found > an easy way of maintaining record of the 'source' > of the original AppleEvent. > > Since almost everything in XTension is done by > AppleEvents, it is possible to kick off an event > which gets into a loop between the master and the > monitor copy of XTension. > > I've gotten some good suggestions from list members, > and it's very near the top of my list, but but but... > > Until I fix this, it may be that you could 'tell' > the 'master' to do things, and let the master tell the > monitor... If you're talking over Ethernet, it shouldn't > be a detectable delay ? > > in work, as always > michael - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 May 1998 16:12:22 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Hi Scot, Gunsmoke Engineering wrote: >If guest access is > enabled I worry (perhaps needlessly?) that another user on the > network might access XTension (or worse!). If you have ANY path by which YOU can control your home via the Internet, then you have a LOCK which can be PICKED. OLD Conundrum : All Locks must have a key. It seems a bit foolish to me to worry about autoguest init and still allow internet access, even with a password. If there is a path, there is a pathfinder... The 'best' things I've heard of are : 1. allow access only at certain times, 2. Use a X-10 telephone transponder: Dial in over that line, issue a command which allows access from X10Tools etc, for a period of time or until the next 'good bye'... 3. Have your system call you with exception reports of your choice. (or send you email) Item 2 requires only the transponder and any phone. - ----- another issue : > That more or less rules out monitoring XTension via the > internet from older machines, since doing internet stuff There should be no problem just monitoring XTension, it is only issuing commands that is the potential loop. You should be able to 'tell' the monitor copy of XTension to return current values in the Database. ALSO, do remember that you can have scripts which use the explicit "Tell" command, and I believe that that will make it to the 'master'. Here's the case that needs to be fixed : Some program or script (like the Weather applet) 'tells' one copy of XTension to 'set value of ...' That copy of XTension (monitor or host), will Not pass that command on to the other copy. This has repercussions and implications with things like scheduled events. You don't want the monitor copy to tell the master to do a scheduled event...(normally) This of course has greater implications in situations where you have more than two copies of XTension, and it gets even more fun when you have two or more X-10 interfaces and multiple 'host' copies of XTension... (like I do) Now don't everyone get excited. This is not the ultimate system that you should all be working toward ! But it is within the realm of possibility, so I have to at least try to provide a 'story' for it... For now, even I have some 'fat fingers' in my system. My WX200 weather applet 'tells' BOTH of my main XTension systems about the weather changes. (do remember the "ignoring application responses" phrase...) whoof michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/17/98 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:45:02 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by Chuck Shotton -> Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac by michael@shed.com -> Re: MacHTTP 2.2 vs X10 Tools by rob@whidbey.com -> RE:Font problem - now what? by MJPolton -> By the way - thanks to all by MJPolton -> Newbie Powerflash Q's by Andy Montag -> A small Applescript Heads Up by "John T. Beresford" -> Re: A small Applescript Heads Up by michael@shed.com -> Re: Newbie Powerflash Q's by michael@shed.com -> Re: Newbie Powerflash Q's by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 05:39:59 -0700 From: Chuck Shotton Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac >> Somehow the event isn't getting passed on to >> the host mac with the Lynx. > >Yes, there has always been this quirk. > >This is one thing that I have been trying to enhance. >The reason it works this way is that I've not found >an easy way of maintaining record of the 'source' >of the original AppleEvent. This is a pretty easy problem to solve, but it requires tweaking the guts of XTension slightly. There are at least two Apple-defined attributes that are part of every AppleEvent, keyReturnIDAttr and keyTransactionIDAttr. You can set the value of the return ID when you create an event. If the monitor XTension sends an event to the master, it should set this value to some unique, identifiable number that indicates that it is from the/a monitor. You can then extract this value on the master, perform the event, and when propogating events back out to the monitors, use that ID again. That way, the originator of the initial event (the monitor) can check to see if the return ID is the same as its unique ID and ignore the incoming event if it is. Alternately, the master can just not propogate events back out to monitors that have a return ID that indicates the original event came from a monitor. (Though this probably breaks in the case of multiple monitors.) Since monitors "sign on" with the master when they set their target, they could each send a unique ID that the master tracks and then the master could just rebroadcast events to monitors whose return ID is different from the sender of the original event. It requires a little extra logic in XTension, but the facility is already in the AppleEvent Manager to allow you to maintain a unique key through all the event calls. So, you don't get into this loop problem and it doesn't require modifying any of the definitions for the events handled by XTension. The rule of thumb is that whoever creates the initial event gets to set the return ID and whoever handles it has to maintain it for any subsequent events generated in response to the initial one. If you do that, then you'll always be able to tell who originated the initial request, no matter how many events it triggers. - --_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Chuck Shotton BIAP Systems, Inc. cshotton@biap.com http://www.biap.com/ "Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 08:04:59 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: X10Tools & Monitor Mac Hi Chuck, I haven't identified all of the points of interest in the source, but I do think that I know now (with your previous help), what has to be done. I do suggest that it may be a little easier if I just have each copy of XTension maintain its own 'source ID', and just never relay an AppleEvent that came from itself. That way, I don't have to maintain but one ID, and each copy takes care of itself. This goes without saying that any 'host' may someday have to maintain a list of 'targets', but I think that the above logic will hold....? Coming to Florida soon ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 13:18:55 -0700 From: rob@whidbey.com Subject: Re: MacHTTP 2.2 vs X10 Tools I just asked Chuck Shotton the same question and he said MacHTTP doesn't support W*API (he noted that the program hadn't been worked on since 1995). He suggested using the shareware version of Quid Pro Quo, available at ftp://ftp.socialeng.com/pub/qpq/qpq2.hqx . I am downloading it as this is written. Gunsmoke Engineering wrote: > Just a quick one: > > Am I wasting my time trying to get Chuck Shotten's X10 Tools > stuff working > with MacHTTP v2.2? > > Is there a work around for v2.2? > > There doesn't seem to be a plugins folder in the MacHTTP > document root. > > WebStar is way out of my budget range (well, almost anything is > out of my budget range for a web server ;). > > Thanks in advance, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 18:56:59 -0700 From: MJPolton Subject: RE:Font problem - now what? It's fixed. I haven't responded for a while because it took a while to get versino 7.1 of the OS, backup and restore everything, etc. Plus I was on a business trip for a week. But thanks Michael - it worked. No more garbled font. I'm still sort of curious how I "got by" without having the minimum version of the OS. I've come up w/2 possible explanations. 1) using the demo version of XT first to build my database allowed me to sneak by??? I think I did that, I know I had the demo version and I think I was building my own database (starting from scratch) before I got mine in the mail. I think also I read somewhere the demo version worked on older versions of the Mac? I'm not sure of any of this. 2) When I upgraded my internal hard drive long, long ago my buddy who helped me (i.e. copied stuff off and onto the new one) MAY have been extra helpful and put 7.1 on the new hard drive. Then I got a corrupted file, then reinstalled from my own 7.0 disks, etc. I'm not sure of this (my memory on such "old" events in both cases isn't very good). He can't remember either what we did. Either way - I'm up and running now - back to normal, well almost. I'm still working on putting everything (non XT) back - but that's another story. Thanks to all for the help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 19:05:05 -0700 From: MJPolton Subject: By the way - thanks to all To everyone who posted an answer to anybody's question, posted something they've done with XTension, and even to those who asked questions - I (and I'm sure others) thank you. Some of us may do nothing but lurk. Or maybe only show up to ask questions and present problems and maybe never any answers. But we find value in all of the other posts. Many of you have been "immortalized" on my hard drive as I've saved many hints, ideas, etc for potential future use. All kinds of topics and all kinds of stuff I want to do later or may need. Yes, archives can be searched, but I'm building my own file of stuff I'm pretty sure I'm going to do or try. So to all of you - thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 19:50:16 -0700 From: Andy Montag Subject: Newbie Powerflash Q's Hi all! After lurking on this list for a couple months (it's now the list I look forward to the most), I've taken the plunge and purchased Xtension. The setup has been super smooth - plug and play. I've spent the weekend seting up some units and experimenting with some scripts and I have a couple questions. When using a powerflash to trigger a script, should it be set to mode 3? I've put a powerflash on my garage door opener terminals so I can turn on several lights when the door goes up or down. It seems to be working, but I'm curious about a couple things in the log: Sun, May 17, 1998 8:33:10 PM Received OFF command for Garage Dr Sensor Sun, May 17, 1998 8:33:10 PM Sending ON command for Garage Lights FFFF,0000,0000Sun, May 17, 1998 8:33:11 PM X10 collision detected during transmission Sun, May 17, 1998 8:43:10 PM Sending OFF command for Garage Lights Why does it always send the OFF command for Garage Dr Sensor? I've made On and Off scripts for this unit to announce "Hey! The garage door is going up" or "Hey! The garage door is going down", but obviously only the off/down script runs. Is it possible to set a unit to toggle between on and off every time the powerflash bangs it? And what about the "X10 collision detected during transmission". Is the powerflash sending more commands while the Xtension script is turning on lights? As I said the lights are coming on fine, so far, but I want to understand what is happening. thanks for your help Andy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 20:07:35 -0700 From: "John T. Beresford" Subject: A small Applescript Heads Up Hi Folks, After spending several hours trying to figure out why applets that I have been using for several years would no longer compile or execute, I was able to track the problem down to a conflict between 2 OSAXEN: CTB.paul and Read/Write Commands both use a "read" command. After I removed the CTB.paul OSAX from the Scripting Additions folder, all of my "read MyFile until eof" lines started to work and compile again. I would guess the reason CTB.paul took control is that it is higher on the alphabetical list then Read/Write Commands. But, that doesn't change the fact that both use identical commands. Why is this relavent? Well, because the CTB.paul OSAX is used for the weather station control. To make it more relevent, if you have any applets that onen text files and read the contents then parse and process the text, you cannot run the 2 OSAXEN together. Since the Read/Write Commands OSAX is an original OSAX from Apple, does anyone know the author of CTB.paul? It would be nice if this osax could be rewritten with commands like "CTB read" and "CTB write". This would be very similar to ACME Script Widgets use of "ACME replace" instead of "replace" Hope this helps someone, John =========================== John T. Beresford Edmond Evening SUN http://www.edmondsun.com/ Stop looking through windows Enjoy life: Get A Macintosh!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 21:21:49 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: A small Applescript Heads Up Hi John, As an aside, CTB.paul was written by Paul Ferguson who is also the original author of XTension. (also my son) I have run into all sorts of cases where there is some verb or event type collision. It may be that it would be much better to just change the names and the event type and avoid some of these. Indeed I have such a problem right now, and you jogged my memory that that may be by current bane. I'll look into what I can do to change the CTB.paul, and if anyone has any suggestions regarding it, now's the time to say... thanks michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 21:30:04 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Newbie Powerflash Q's Hi Andy, Exellent question! We've not touched on this for a long time. There are some things to remember here about the PowerFlash. It does send both an ON and an OFF when its contacts are closed and opened respectively. Its MODES are perhaps 'overly helpful' when you have software behind it. Modes 1 and 2 are meant specifically for applications where you don't have a computer. Mode 1 issues an All lights ON for the same house code, and specifically turns ONE specific house/unit module ON. When it resets, the one specific module is turned OFF. (this leaves the All other lights on...?) Mode 2 simply flashes all lights on the same house code. (this is why it used to be called the burglar alarm...) MODE 3 is my preferred setting. You get an ON when the contacts close, and an OFF when they open again. In your example, you see a "X-10 collision detected..." This is most likely because the PowerFlash contacts were closed for only one second and then opened again. In response, the Powerflash sent an ON, and then one second later sent an OFF. Your script which responded to the ON by sending the ON to the Garage Lights immediately, collided with the OFF which came from the PowerFlash. This is one good reason why we have the verb option : " Turn on "Garage Lights" IN 5 " Sometimes you will have a situation where you Know that you are going to get the OFF from the PF, very quickly after the ON. The option allows you to anticipate this and avoid the collision. You don't need to wait 5 seconds as above. Even one or two seconds is sufficient. For example, with a DM10 or MS12 motion sensor, you know that the OFF is not going to come immediately after you see the ON, so you don't need to do anything to avoid a collision. Just send what you want immediately that you see the ON. In the case of a PowerFlash connected to the Laser Beam motion detector, it may be that the vehicle passes thru the beam in about one second. There I have to anticipate this and I do delay the reaction for 2 seconds. - ----- ANOTHER issue: I believe that you are getting the OFF first for the garage door opening (your contact opens ?) and you would get the ON when the contact closes again. This is why there is the "Use Reverse Logic" option. You can make the ON from the door switch actually be an OFF, and vice versa. It is just sometimes easier to 'talk' about the on and off when you relate to the door being open or closed. Like the Laser beams which always are 'closed' when the beam is Un-broken. The contact opens when the beam is broken. It makes more sense for me to say "the sensor went ON, it must be an alarm" So I use the 'reverse logic option' to make the OFF from the PF look like an ON. This is difficult to talk about if you don't have one to play with.... :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 May 1998 21:39:40 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Newbie Powerflash Q's Hi Andy, Exellent question! We've not touched on this for a long time. There are some things to remember here about the PowerFlash. It does send both an ON and an OFF when its contacts are closed and opened respectively. Its MODES are perhaps 'overly helpful' when you have software behind it. Modes 1 and 2 are meant specifically for applications where you don't have a computer. Mode 1 issues an All lights ON for the same house code, and specifically turns ONE specific house/unit module ON. When it resets, the one specific module is turned OFF. (this leaves the All other lights on...?) Mode 2 simply flashes all lights on the same house code. (this is why it used to be called the burglar alarm...) MODE 3 is my preferred setting. You get an ON when the contacts close, and an OFF when they open again. In your example, you see a "X-10 collision detected..." This is most likely because the PowerFlash contacts were closed for only one second and then opened again. In response, the Powerflash sent an ON, and then one second later sent an OFF. Your script which responded to the ON by sending the ON to the Garage Lights immediately, collided with the OFF which came from the PowerFlash. This is one good reason why we have the verb option : " Turn on "Garage Lights" IN 5 " Sometimes you will have a situation where you Know that you are going to get the OFF from the PF, very quickly after the ON. The option allows you to anticipate this and avoid the collision. You don't need to wait 5 seconds as above. Even one or two seconds is sufficient. For example, with a DM10 or MS12 motion sensor, you know that the OFF is not going to come immediately after you see the ON, so you don't need to do anything to avoid a collision. Just send what you want immediately that you see the ON. In the case of a PowerFlash connected to the Laser Beam motion detector, it may be that the vehicle passes thru the beam in about one second. There I have to anticipate this and I do delay the reaction for 2 seconds. - ----- ANOTHER issue: I believe that you are getting the OFF first for the garage door opening (your contact opens ?) and you would get the ON when the contact closes again. This is why there is the "Use Reverse Logic" option. You can make the ON from the door switch actually be an OFF, and vice versa. It is just sometimes easier to 'talk' about the on and off when you relate to the door being open or closed. Like the Laser beams which always are 'closed' when the beam is Un-broken. The contact opens when the beam is broken. It makes more sense for me to say "the sensor went ON, it must be an alarm" So I use the 'reverse logic option' to make the OFF from the PF look like an ON. This is difficult to talk about if you don't have one to play with.... :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/18/98 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:45:26 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> dm10 vs ms12 by Ken Victor -> Re: dm10 vs ms12 by Rich Leonard -> Re: dm10 vs ms12 by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 May 1998 11:18:46 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: dm10 vs ms12 i've been searching thru various catalogs to get some new x10 stuff. its not clear to me from any of the catalogs what the difference is between the dm10 and the ms12 motions detectors are. (other than the dm10 seems to cost $10 more.) could someone who knows enumerate the differences and attributes and strengths and weaknesses of each? relatedly, does anyone know who sells an individual cm11a? the only place i've seen it is as part of the x10 active home kit.... thanx, ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 May 1998 12:08:55 -0700 From: Rich Leonard Subject: Re: dm10 vs ms12 On Mon, 18 May 1998 10:56:19 -0700 KVictor@POBox.com (Ken Victor) wrote: > what the difference is between the >dm10 and the ms12 motions detectors are. If I remember right... other than size/price/sensitivity the big differences are: DM10 - Sends ON every 30 seconds while there is movement. Does not send an OFF signal. MS12 - Sends ON signal, waits about 6 minutes after last motion and sends OFF. The DM10 seems best for places where the motion is sporadic. Rooms that you enter and leave quickly, or just pass though. Otherwise the log and powerline fill up with ON signals. You can use XTension to run a script started by DM10 ON, and check the timedelta of the unit and then turn something off after a period of time. The MS12 seems best for monitoring spaces that you remain in for a long period of time. Rich Leonard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 May 1998 12:37:32 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: dm10 vs ms12 Hi Ken, You may have missed this page.. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/19/98 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:44:43 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> DM10 and MS12a by "Jerry Prsha" -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by michael@shed.com -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by michael@shed.com -> Re: A small Applescript Heads Up by Mark Hartman -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by "Jerry Prsha" -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by michael@shed.com -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by "Jerry Prsha" -> Re: DM10 and MS12a by michael@shed.com -> is it possible to... by Ken Victor -> Re: XTension and Apple by Mark Hartman -> Re: XTension and Apple by "Mitchell S. Cohen" -> USB and serial ports by michael@shed.com -> Re: USB and serial ports by michael@shed.com -> Re: is it possible to... by michael@shed.com -> POSTS by pierre@hybride.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 08:06:44 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: DM10 and MS12a Well, I made the plunge the other day and ordered both the DM10 and MS12 PIRs. I only had the chance last night to start playing with them and freaked myself out early this morning. I only have one unit in it's proper place, in the bedroom, and it's positioned on the tv. That way, anything below about 4 feet won't get picked up like me rolling around in bed. About two this morning, I woke up with some pretty bad heartburn. I decided it was time to get a rolaid and when I sat up in bed, the lights dimmed in the room to about 40 percent and then the hallway light went on to that same lever. I freaked. Thinking that there was someone in my house (since I was still half alseep) it took me a few moments to realize that the MS12a has turned on the lights for me. This all happened in a span of about 1 second. The response was incredible! I can deal with 1 second of lag time in sensing movement and issuing the command to XTension. Granted that the decision making process hasn't been completed and there will be a slightly higher amount of time when more decisions are parsed, I'm very happy. I'll probably attach the DM10 to the deck area tonight if I can get home at a decent time and the fun will really start! hehe Some others were inquiring about the response time of the MS12a and so far, it's worked great for me! I may need some Applescript help soon though! Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 08:36:55 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a Hi Jerry ! hehe indeed...I got a little story from yesterday : Whenever my carpenter is in residence (he stays here while doing a project), the beer cooler seems to deplete at a rate which is totally unacceptable in that it is an hour's trip to replenish the supply... So, this time I had a little surprise for him. The beer cooler is just an old refrigerator, located in the barn making it very convenient for a beer snitch. I jammed a DM10a into one of the door shelves. Whenever the door is opened, there is no way to defeat the triggering of the DM10... The DM10 sends a ON command for motion, and with the ON script of XTension, I simply turn on a very loud siren screecher which is located just at the feet of the beer snitch... I also can count the number of times that the door is opened, just in case I don't hear the alarm. I also announce "Beer Snitch" over the wireless speakers. PS: I am very pleased that the DM10 does seem to have a strong enough signal which can make it to the wireless transceiver which is about 25 feet away, but the metal door of the cooler is directly between the DM10 and the receiver. This hasn't stopped the beer snitch, but it has eliminated the "Gee Michael, I only drank one ...." michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 09:08:07 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a Hi Folks, I just got a good idea from my own last post... The problem with the beer cooler alarm is that the beer snitch can take out several beers, opening the door only once... I think that I can get one of those can/bottle dispensers in which the units roll down a serpentine rack, exposing only one at a time. Now we attach a 'paddle' to a micro-switch, and place it in such a way as the currently exposed bottle holds the switch closed. When the bottle is removed, I get a switch 'open' until the next bottle rolls down and closes the switch... Connect a PowerFlash to the contacts of the switch, and now you get a X-10 OFF each time a bottle is taken. And you get an X-10 ON when the next bottle rolls into place. Another benefit is that if an ON doesn't occur right after an OFF, then you know that the beer rack is empty...! this is fun ! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 10:03:22 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: A small Applescript Heads Up It should be possible to simply extract, modify and replace the 'aete' resource; this is what OSA uses to translate English into AppleEvents. I could probably do this, if anyone is interested. >Hi John, > >As an aside, CTB.paul was written by Paul Ferguson >who is also the original author of XTension. (also my son) > >I have run into all sorts of cases where there is some >verb or event type collision. > >It may be that it would be much better to just change >the names and the event type and avoid some of these. > >Indeed I have such a problem right now, and you jogged >my memory that that may be by current bane. > >I'll look into what I can do to change the CTB.paul, >and if anyone has any suggestions regarding it, >now's the time to say... > >thanks >michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 10:21:06 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a - -->I think that I can get one of those can/bottle - -->dispensers in which the units roll down a - -->serpentine rack, exposing only one at a time. I realize that you have some time on your hands to experiment with this stuff.. but.. have you ever thought about installing a lock on the door? (duck and run) Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 10:33:06 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a hehe: I'm a sadist. The size of his eyes and the palor of his face was worth all the beers he ever snitched... :-) michael Jerry Prsha wrote: > I realize that you have some time on your hands to experiment with this > stuff.. but.. have you ever thought about installing a lock on the door? > (duck and run) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 10:44:39 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a - -->hehe: I'm a sadist. - -->The size of his eyes and the palor of his face - -->was worth all the beers he ever snitched... :-) - --> - --> michael Hehe.. I knew you wouldn't buy the easy way out! Maybe you should use your rocket thingie that scares the squirrels to slide up and cork him the back of the head? That would deter me from getting in there! Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 10:48:16 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: DM10 and MS12a Hi again... An even easier and more complete solution of the beer cooler monitor is to use a 'hacked' DM10 : With the Powerflash monitoring the beer dispenser, it requires that I both have a powerflash and that I run wires out of the cooler to the powerflash... bummer If I just hack the DM10, and run the wires from the beer dispenser switch to the DM10 (dusk sensor connections), I don't need the PowerFlash at all, and don't need to run wires outside the cooler ! There isn't a page on the site yet which describes this, but here are a couple of pics which may help : Of course it would be simple to just lock the refrigerator, but I know that there are some of you who would like to be able to monitor any such consumable, from beer to soda pop... I once had a customer who wanted to be able to detect the midnite raids of the fridge by his children who were just a wee bit over-stuffed already... :-) I smell a trip to town for the dispenser, and a new tutorial... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 13:52:35 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: is it possible to... is it possible within an on or off script for a unit to abort processing and avoiding sending the x10 command over the wire? eg, within an on script: if status of "Nobody's Home" is true then abort -- and don't send x10 command over wire else ... end if i realize that this can be accomplished via a pseudo that could check "Nobody's Home" and only turn on the unit appropriately, but ultimately, proliferation of pseudo's make maintenance a drag... alternately, is it possible to block myself and then create an event to unblock myself in a few seconds? but if this works, it leads to "extraneous" events... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 14:14:35 -0700 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: XTension and Apple >The real 'holy grail' for me, would be to see Apple >'bundle' XTension in some way with their product line. > >The new iMac would be a great place to start. The only real problem with this, AFAICT, is that there are no serial ports on the iMac. Does anyone make a USB X-10 interface, and does XTension support it? (I should point out here that I am involved in the design and implementation of automation systems for certain classes of buildings, and a combination of XTension and the iMac would be ideal, if there were a way to get a serial path to a LynX or some other computer-to-X10 interface.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 14:25:05 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: XTension and Apple >>The new iMac would be a great place to start. > >The only real problem with this, AFAICT, is that there are no serial ports >on the iMac. Does anyone make a USB X-10 interface, and does XTension >support it? True... There is one USB-to-Serial adapter I know of. It's a four-port adapter and costs $400. PC only right now, of course. I suspect more of these things will appear as USB becomes more common on both platforms. (www.usbstuff.com has various adapters.) - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 14:58:21 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: USB and serial ports Hi Folks, I'm with you, and trying to stay abreast of this new twist in the Mac world. You might want to check out the products mentioned on this site : There is a single port USB to serial device from Peracom : The real question is what kind of drivers exist on the new iMac and whether they are CommToolBox compliant...? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 16:09:16 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: USB and serial ports Hi Folks, My brother is visiting, specifically to learn about XTension. Today he set up his first lamp module and as luck would have it, discovered a 'bug' in XTension. The 'bug' is really my failure to dis-allow the "Use Reverse Logic" option for 'dimmable' units. He had just been playing around, and managed go get into a state where that option was left on. Of course it caused him much confusion, and me too. When he called for help, I didn't notice the "reverse logic" was checked... I don't have a good idea of just what happens when you do this, but I would suggest that if you ever have something really wacko with one of your dimmable units, you might just check to make sure that this option is not selected. oh well, I'm sure we'll find more surprises yet... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 18:11:02 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: is it possible to... Hi Ken, I thought that maybe someone would help me with this one... In cases where you want to temporarily and conditionally prevent the sending of a command to a database unit, the 'block' and 'unblock' are the tools of choice. The only reason I haven't added a 'scheduled event type' of 'block/unblock', is that I would have to change the scheduled event window...that's GUI, and I admit to my 'weak knees' when it comes to piddling with windows. But it may be possible to provide the capability within the block/unblock verbs by adding the '...for x seconds' phrase like some of the other verbs. Even then, this will not provide the ability to disable the turn on/off of a unit from within that unit's scripts. If the unit is not blocked, and it has scripts, when the unit is commanded from another script or scheduled event, the unit script will be executed. michael Ken Victor wrote: > > is it possible within an on or off script for a unit to abort processing > and avoiding sending the x10 command over the wire? > > eg, within an on script: > if status of "Nobody's Home" is true then > abort -- and don't send x10 command over wire > else > ... > end if > > i realize that this can be accomplished via a pseudo that could check > "Nobody's Home" and only turn on the unit appropriately, but ultimately, > proliferation of pseudo's make maintenance a drag... > > alternately, is it possible to block myself and then create an event to > unblock myself in a few seconds? but if this works, it leads to > "extraneous" events... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 1998 21:22:20 -0700 From: pierre@hybride.com Subject: POSTS I am trying to force a specific dimming value as 75% on a LEVITON dimmer wich has preset capability. Only Turn ON and Turn OFF comand on my script make this wall dimmer respond. I was able to achive this on the simple wall switch witch doesn't have any local dimming features to differents presets values from differents scripts as 25%,50%,75% and I will like to do the same from my scripts but the dim and Brithen command just not work with that unit. LEVITON Model 6381 Remote wall switch. I am triyng to not use the "simulate preset dim" feature from Xtension on unit that dont have any internal preset capability because of the traffic that generate and the "set one shot" time for proper operation that this feature is requiering. This simulate feature never send a real OFF command that can be properly decoded by any 6400 series from LEVITON (3sw + 1 dim unit) and after a Turn OFF command generated from Xtension (on any device where the simulate preset cammand was ON) via my LYNX interface led still ON after the unit was send in pseudo OFF mode. When I try to do some test of looping commands using scheduling feature every 30 sec the system start losing it when this feature was on because of the handshake or timing overflow that this feature generate software wise. I hope that you folks can decode this bad english properly from a french tech calling from Montreal. Thank again! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/20/98 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:44:50 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: POSTS by Phil Pedersen -> noise problems almost solved by Ken Victor -> Re: noise problems almost solved by Gunsmoke Engineering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 May 1998 05:49:46 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: POSTS Pierre, If you have the Lynx, take a look at http://www.marrickltd.com There's a tech note there that explains how the Lynx commands for pre-set dim work. You'll have to use the send data "xxx" command to address the module and thern a code to set the switch to the pre-set dim level. Unfortunately, pre-set dim is not a simple command supported by Xtension, although you can set it up for any given switch within a script. Phil >I am trying to force a specific dimming value as 75% on a >LEVITON dimmer wich has preset capability. >Only Turn ON and Turn OFF comand on my script make this wall dimmer >respond. >I was able to achive this on the simple wall switch witch doesn't have >any local dimming features >to differents presets values from differents scripts as 25%,50%,75% and >I will like to do the >same from my scripts but the dim and Brithen command just not work with >that unit. > >LEVITON Model 6381 Remote wall switch. > > >I am triyng to not use the "simulate preset dim" feature from Xtension >on unit that dont have any internal preset capability because of the >traffic that generate >and the "set one shot" time for proper operation that this feature is >requiering. >This simulate feature never send a real OFF command that can be properly >decoded >by any 6400 series from LEVITON (3sw + 1 dim unit) and after a Turn OFF >command generated >from Xtension (on any device where the simulate preset cammand was ON) >via my LYNX interface >led still ON after the unit was send in pseudo OFF mode. > >When I try to do some test of looping commands using scheduling feature >every 30 sec >the system start losing it when this feature was on because of the >handshake or timing overflow >that this feature generate software wise. > >I hope that you folks can decode this bad english properly from >a french tech calling from Montreal. Thank again! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 May 1998 18:15:08 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: noise problems almost solved background summary in addition to xtension with its cm11, i have several x10 controllers "sprinkled" thruout my small (a1400 sq ft) home; i have an x10 bridge installed in my breaker box. everything was working fine, ie, commands sent from any controller-- including cm11 -- were properly received and operated upon by the receiving units, except the cm11 (and hence xtension) wan't seeing the commands being issued by all of the controllers. unsuccessful approach many of the controllers i have are probably 13 years or more old. i thought this might be part of my problem, so i bought a new maxi controller and tried it in the place of one of the controllers that the cm11 wasn't seeing. it didn't do any better than the old contoller in terms of the cm11 seeing it. experiment my home has 8 "circuits" (ie, there are 8 circuit breakers in the main box). circuits 7& 8 are used only by the stove. the x10 bridge is connected across circuits 1 & 2 on the inhouse side of the appropriate circuit breakers. all my computer equipment is plugged in via control strips and an UPS on circuit 3. the cm11 had been plugged directly into circuit 3 (ie, not thru the UPS or a control strip). i took a controller and plugged into various circuits and discovered the following: the cm11 could see commands if the controller was plugged into circuits 1, 3, or 5, but not when it was plugged into circuits 2, 4, or 6. regardless of which circuit the controller was plugged into, it appeared that my x10 units could successfully see its commands. seemed pretty strange that the cm11 was ignoring commands issued from even controllers! i then plugged the cm11 into circuits 2 and 4 (succesively). and VOILA! it could see commands issued from all my controllers. so i ran an extension cord from my kitchen (from an outlet on circuit 4) to my computer room for the cm11 -- not too offensive, and well worth the time and effort if everything would now be working the way it is supposed to. i thought i was done!!! while the cm11 can now see commands from all my controllers, and all my controllers can send commands to all my units, the cm11 can only send commands to most of my units. some units (apparantly on circuit 3) do not see commands from the cm11 (even tho they can see commands from other controllers). this is where things currently stand and i have to stop for the time being and will continue my "experimenting" later this week. in the meantime, i'm sending this to share my experience, and to ask if anyone can explain what i consider to be this bizarre behavior. ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 May 1998 19:07:43 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: noise problems almost solved I had basically the same experience. A bridge didn't help, and this in an 1100 sq. ft. house. An amplifier bridge fixed everything (no extension cords to the Lynx). Make sure that the bridge you installed is really going between the two legs of your 220. My circuit panel has breakers aligned left to right on the same leg, and legs alternate top to bottom. To the bridge needed to be installed on vertically adjacent breakers. $200 is a lot to pay for a bridge/amp, but you'll be rewarded with solid performance anywhere in your (and maybe your neighbors;) house. Hope this helps, Scot Marburger At 6:15 PM -0700 on 5/20/98, Ken Victor wrote: > background summary > > in addition to xtension with its cm11, i have several x10 >controllers > "sprinkled" thruout my small (a1400 sq ft) home; i have an x10 >bridge > installed in my breaker box. > > everything was working fine, ie, commands sent from any >controller-- > including cm11 -- were properly received and operated upon by >the receiving > units, except the cm11 (and hence xtension) wan't seeing the >commands being > issued by all of the controllers. > > unsuccessful approach > > many of the controllers i have are probably 13 years or more >old. i thought > this might be part of my problem, so i bought a new maxi >controller and > tried it in the place of one of the controllers that the cm11 >wasn't > seeing. it didn't do any better than the old contoller in >terms of the cm11 > seeing it. > > experiment > > my home has 8 "circuits" (ie, there are 8 circuit breakers in >the main > box). circuits 7& 8 are used only by the stove. the x10 bridge is > connected across circuits 1 & 2 on the inhouse side of the >appropriate > circuit breakers. all my computer equipment is plugged in via >control > strips and an UPS on circuit 3. the cm11 had been plugged >directly into > circuit 3 (ie, not thru the UPS or a control strip). > > i took a controller and plugged into various circuits and >discovered the > following: the cm11 could see commands if the controller was >plugged into > circuits 1, 3, or 5, but not when it was plugged into circuits >2, 4, or 6. > regardless of which circuit the controller was plugged into, >it appeared > that my x10 units could successfully see its commands. > > seemed pretty strange that the cm11 was ignoring commands >issued from even > controllers! > > i then plugged the cm11 into circuits 2 and 4 (succesively). >and VOILA! it > could see commands issued from all my controllers. > > so i ran an extension cord from my kitchen (from an outlet on >circuit 4) > to my computer room for the cm11 -- not too offensive, and >well worth the > time and effort if everything would now be working the way it >is supposed > to. > > i thought i was done!!! while the cm11 can now see commands >from all my > controllers, and all my controllers can send commands to all >my units, the > cm11 can only send commands to most of my units. some units >(apparantly on > circuit 3) do not see commands from the cm11 (even tho they can see > commands from other controllers). this is where things >currently stand and > i have to stop for the time being and will continue my >"experimenting" > later this week. > > in the meantime, i'm sending this to share my experience, and >to ask if > anyone can explain what i consider to be this bizarre behavior. > > ken - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/21/98 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:45:26 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> POSTS by pierre@hybride.com -> Re: noise problems almost solved by michael@shed.com -> Most Reliable System Version for XTension? by Darryl Tang -> Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? by "Mitchell S. Cohen" -> Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by john.brumleve@kzf.com -> Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by matthew mcglynn -> Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by "Mitchell S. Cohen" -> Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? by Darryl Tang -> Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? by Darryl Tang -> sharing some scripts by Ken Victor -> Re: POSTS by Steve Fyfe -> USB to serial by Jay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 04:35:21 -0700 From: pierre@hybride.com Subject: POSTS Send data for preser dim script example I would like to see an example of a scipt that send a preset dim command to A1 at 50% I am sending this send data "X000" send data "X19A" but the device doesn't respond. (LEVITON 6381) thank! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 04:49:41 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: noise problems almost solved Hi Folks, Regarding signal propagation and various controllers. The CM11 has been reported to be 'weaker' in its ability to SEND signals than the common mini and maxi controllers. The simple X-10 'coupler' is nothing more than a capacitor. It simply allows passage of signals between the two legs of your power, but does nothing to improve their strength or quality. I have received reports from some users who solved their problem in small houses by re-arranging their circuits at the main circuit breaker box. Either they did it themselves, or had someone do it for them, but all they did was to make sure that all of the circuits that were essential to the HA system, were on the same 'leg' of the power... This is surely not possible in larger homes, but it is a cheaper solution than buying the 'amplifier-repeater'. And it's a lot prettier than having a bunch of extension cords running around. Also: In recent years, wall sockets and switches have been made which have 'strip and insert' connections as opposed to the older 'screw-down' type. Certainly these are ok, but I have seen examples where these connections can become corroded and loose. Not only can this cause a loss of signal, but they can actually help generate 'noise' when certain kinds of electronic devices are plugged into them. Since it is a common practice to 'daisy-chain' wall sockets and switches from one to the other, it is possible that any of them on a 'string' can cause problems for all that are on the same string. Even an amplifier-repeater cannot make up for poor wiring and connections, and of course it won't help if you have some device which is generating electrical noise. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 07:14:47 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? Hello XTension Users: Does anyone have a recommendation on the most stable system software version for running XTension? I had my first system freeze (mouse responded but menus were unresponsive and option-command-escape resulted in a total lockup) last night and am wondering if System 8.1 (running on an 040 Performa 475) is to blame. The freeze occurred while XTension was backing up the database (which it is set to do every 3 hours) according to the log file. I had been doing a fair amount of tweaking some scripts in the past couple days (and did not reboot) which may have contributed to the freeze. The Performa's only job is to run XTension. 1. I was thinking about switching to 7.6.1, which seems more more responsive on an 040 machine. I went with 8.1 initially because I thought it might be more stable. Any thoughts on the best system version? 2. Do you recommend rebooting the system regularly and automatically? I have been trying to run XTension continuously, but an automatic, periodic reboot might eliminate problems like memory leaks that accumulate over time. Thanks for any comments. Darryl _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com - -end message- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 09:58:08 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? Darryl Tang wrote: > > The freeze occurred while XTension was > backing up the database (which it is set to do every 3 hours) according to > the log file. > We've seen at least one mention of a 'freeze' in conjunction with a database backup. I also think that the other OS was 8.1... We'll just have to keep an eye on this. > 1. I was thinking about switching to 7.6.1, which seems more more > responsive on an 040 machine. I went with 8.1 initially because I thought > it might be more stable. Any thoughts on the best system version? Given that you dedicate the Performa to XTension, I would go with an earlier OS than 8.x. I know that the later versions of 7.x are more than you really need. Version 7.1 works very well, and is very slim and quick. But I do have system 7.6 working on my PB5300, mostly because the later versions have fixes specially for the PowerBooks. > 2. Do you recommend rebooting the system regularly and automatically? I > have been trying to run XTension continuously, but an automatic, periodic > reboot might eliminate problems like memory leaks that accumulate over time. There was a time when everyone was doing an auto restart every day, but I believe that with XTension version 1.7.3, folks have taken that out. Although there may yet be some 'memory leaks' in XTension, they must not be very big ones, because I know that some folks have had XTension running for months without a restart. (me too) But in answer to your original question, XTension version 1.7.3 is the version you want to use. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 09:58:53 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? >1. I was thinking about switching to 7.6.1, which seems more more >responsive on an 040 machine. I went with 8.1 initially because I thought >it might be more stable. Any thoughts on the best system version? If (as you say) the Performa's only real job is to run XTension, I'd go for 7.6.1 over 8.1, just for simplicity sake. That's following the theory that the more complex the system, the more likely it is to break. I do like 7.6 over 7.5 (for stability). If 7.1 runs on the machine, that's probably even more stable, but you lose nice things like good Finder scripting. >2. Do you recommend rebooting the system regularly and automatically? I >have been trying to run XTension continuously, but an automatic, periodic >reboot might eliminate problems like memory leaks that accumulate over time. While others will say the system shouldn't need to be restarted, I think it's a good idea. I have my system restart around 2am every day. It certainly can't hurt, and it just might help (for the reasons you state). You can find my scripts for doing this on my home automation page, which you can get to from the URL below. ...Mitch - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 10:36:59 -0700 From: john.brumleve@kzf.com Subject: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? Hi, Tuesday night, thunderstorms interrupted the power for a couple hours. (Slow, hard crash.) When the Mac attempted to start Xtension afterwards, the message was "Cannot open database. terminating execution" The Recovered Items in the Trash had the database. But when using it, the results were the same. Fortunately, I had a recent archived database that worked. Configuration: Macintosh Classic II Dedicated to XTension 10 MB Ram 80 MB HD System 7.6 XTension 1.7.2 Saving database: Never No other applications running Any Thoughts? I am wondering if a Uninteruptible Power Supply is the only real solution here, [$$$ :-( ] or if there is there a built-in problem of my system or configuration that is causing the database to be damaged during a powerfail. Can I set up an automatic archive of the database on a periodic basis from within Xtension? Thanks! Brumski john.brumleve@kzf.com brumski@one.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 10:50:25 -0700 From: matthew mcglynn Subject: Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? At 6:37 AM -0700 on 5/21/98, John Brumleve wrote: > I am wondering if a Uninteruptible Power Supply is the > only real solution here, I'm a big fan of UPSes, because so many bad things happen when the power goes out. However, if you aren't going to be around, then a UPS does you very little good unless you also spring for some kind of powerfail-shutdown-sensor (like the PowerkeyPro; see ). That is, if your UPS gives you 30 minutes of power, but you're not home, guess what happens 31 minutes from now? Most of my machines are on a UPS here, and it is very comforting to be able to stand in a dark house and carefully shut down each computer in turn. Battery life is expensive, so I only have enough to give me maybe 20 minutes -- long enough to do a safe, sane shutdown. And I think an automated database backup system is a good idea in any case. Hmm, I don't even have one here... another project for the weekend. - -- matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 11:18:32 -0700 From: "Mitchell S. Cohen" Subject: Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? >That is, if your UPS gives you 30 minutes of power, but you're >not home, guess what happens 31 minutes from now? Many UPS's have serial ports. These are really designed for unattended servers, which an XTension machine qualifies as. If you have a spare serial port (ugh), you can monitor the power status and manage an orderly shutdown after x minutes without power. I have an APC UPS. Their PowerChute software works well as an automatic shutdown. There's also a freeware on the info-mac mirrors for a similar function. And I imagine writing your own software would be simple. Of course my nice UPS is, right now, protecting nothing but two answering machines. Looong story... - --- Mitchell S. Cohen, Multimedia Systems Consulting Nothing is important... So, everything is important. mcohen@msystems.com, http://www.msystems.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 13:03:29 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? >Darryl Tang wrote: >> >> The freeze occurred while XTension was >> backing up the database (which it is set to do every 3 hours) according to >> the log file. >> >We've seen at least one mention of a 'freeze' in conjunction with >a database backup. I also think that the other OS was 8.1... > >We'll just have to keep an eye on this. > >> 1. I was thinking about switching to 7.6.1, which seems more more >> responsive on an 040 machine. I went with 8.1 initially because I thought >> it might be more stable. Any thoughts on the best system version? > >Given that you dedicate the Performa to XTension, I would go with an >earlier OS than 8.x. I know that the later versions of 7.x are >more than you really need. Version 7.1 works very well, and is very >slim and quick. > >But I do have system 7.6 working on my PB5300, mostly because the >later versions have fixes specially for the PowerBooks. > >> 2. Do you recommend rebooting the system regularly and automatically? I >> have been trying to run XTension continuously, but an automatic, periodic >> reboot might eliminate problems like memory leaks that accumulate over time. > >There was a time when everyone was doing an auto restart every day, but >I believe that with XTension version 1.7.3, folks have taken that out. > >Although there may yet be some 'memory leaks' in XTension, they must not >be very big ones, because I know that some folks have had XTension >running for months without a restart. (me too) > >But in answer to your original question, XTension version 1.7.3 is >the version you want to use. > >michael Thanks Michael. I will probably switch to 7.6.1 this weekend and will refrain from auto rebooting. _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 13:08:15 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Re: Most Reliable System Version for XTension? >>1. I was thinking about switching to 7.6.1, which seems more more >>responsive on an 040 machine. I went with 8.1 initially because I thought >>it might be more stable. Any thoughts on the best system version? > >If (as you say) the Performa's only real job is to run XTension, I'd go >for 7.6.1 over 8.1, just for simplicity sake. That's following the >theory that the more complex the system, the more likely it is to break. >I do like 7.6 over 7.5 (for stability). If 7.1 runs on the machine, >that's probably even more stable, but you lose nice things like good >Finder scripting. > >>2. Do you recommend rebooting the system regularly and automatically? I >>have been trying to run XTension continuously, but an automatic, periodic >>reboot might eliminate problems like memory leaks that accumulate over time. > >While others will say the system shouldn't need to be restarted, I think >it's a good idea. I have my system restart around 2am every day. It >certainly can't hurt, and it just might help (for the reasons you state). > You can find my scripts for doing this on my home automation page, which >you can get to from the URL below. > >...Mitch > Thanks Mitch. I will give 7.6.1 a try, and may even look at 7.1 if it proves problematic. Darryl _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 13:39:47 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: sharing some scripts here are some of the scripts i've written that others may find useful. as with most things with scripting and with xtension, there are perhaps several other ways to accomplish similar tasks. in both cases, i "compile" the scripts as always open (stand alone) applications that periodically send events to xtension. alternatively, they could be "incorporated" directly into xtension: put the "on run" code into the startup script; put the "on quit" code into the shutdown script; put the "on notice" code into the attachments script; put the "on idle" code into a script that is executed periodically by a repeating event. script 1: track arrival of email via eudora: on notice occurrence what messages theList if (what is mail arrives) then tell application "XTension" to turnon "Mail Arrived" end if end notice on run repeat tell application "Finder" to set abc to processes if abc contains application "Eudora Pro" then exit repeat end repeat tell application "Eudora Pro" to start notifying (path to me) when mail arrives end run on quit tell application "Finder" to set abc to processes if abc contains application "Eudora Pro" then tell application "Eudora Pro" to stop notifying (path to me) when mail arrives end if continue quit end quit notes: i keep this applet in my startup folder, as well as an alias to my eudora settings file that will start eudora on startup. the "on run" code simply waits until eudora is up and running before attempting to send it a message; and the "on quit" code checks to see if eudora is running before bothering to send it a message. obviously, the "on notice" code can be replaced by whatever actions you wish -- i have a simple on script associated with the "Mail Arrived" unit. script 2: tracking arrival of faxes via faxcillate property numFiles : 0 on run if numFiles is 0 then tell application "Finder" to set numFiles to count of files of folder "FAXcilitate Folder" of folder "System u" of startup disk end if end run on idle tell application "Finder" to set curFiles to count of files of folder "FAXcilitate Folder" of folder "System u" of startup disk if curFiles = numFiles then else set numFiles to curFiles tell application "XTension" to turnon "Fax Arrived" end if return (30 * minutes) end idle notes: faxcillate doesn't provide any scripting way of being notified when a script arrives; therefore i simply monitor the number of files in the faxcillate folder and when this changes i simply fire off a message to xtension and do whatever i want in the on script for the Fax Arrived unit. note that i only bother to check every 30 minutes as i do not get very many faxes, but to check more or less often simply change the value returned from the idle code. also note you might only want to fire off xtension when the file count increases... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 18:51:03 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: POSTS Pierre Raymond said on 5/21/98 8:41 AM >I would like to see an example of a scipt >that send a preset dim command to A1 at 50% > >I am sending this >send data "X000" >send data "X19A" > >but the device doesn't respond. (LEVITON 6381) I don't have a Lynx or a Leviton 6381, so I cannot test this but according to my reading of the Lynx documentation your script is attempting to set a level of about 26%. To set a level of about 50% you would use "X1FA" in your second Send Data. There are two Preset Dim commands - use the first one (with MSB 0) for levels from 0 to about 50%. Use the second one for levels from about 50% to 100% (level 0 with the second command is about 52% - level "F" with the second command is 100%). Do you have documentation that describes how this device responds to a preset dim command? I believe that some devices will change brightness when they receive a preset dim command, but to me that is not what PREset dim means. I would expect that the device would save the level from the preset dim command so that the next time the device is turned on, it will come on at that level. You might experiement to see if that is the way this device works. HTH _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 May 1998 19:43:16 -0700 From: Jay Subject: USB to serial Newer Technologies is developing USB to serial converters (possibly to SCSI too) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/22/98 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:45:18 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Problems by "Jerry Prsha" -> Back up Scripts by Rich Leonard -> Re: Problems by michael@shed.com -> Re: Back up Scripts by michael@shed.com -> Re: Back up Scripts by Greg Satz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 May 1998 10:50:03 -0700 From: "Jerry Prsha" Subject: Problems Well, I woke up this morning to the lights being on and not going off. I went to check XTension and realized that Housecode P8 was going on and off in machinegun fashion. I could never get XTenstion to send a command to the CM11 controller because of the traffic. Basically, the computer is off and so are all of the lights for today. XTension claims that it can't find the controller. Is it because of all of the traffic? If not, is the CM11 toast? Could it be giving me the P8s? No other modules are on that address to be shorted out. I'm frustrated. Jerry - ----------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri - U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 May 1998 12:44:14 -0700 From: Rich Leonard Subject: Back up Scripts Hi, Finally managed to bring copies of some scripts to work so I could put them on the Web server. I have a set of scripts that back up the Attachments, Database, and Scripts folder to both a back up folder on the harddrive and a floppy disk. I have an event that runs once a week and calls the master script which in turn runs each of the other scripts. I set the XTension "backup Database" preference to never. In my shut down script I display a dialog and ask if the database should be backed up. Makes sense to automate the backup of the automation files! The URL is http://www2.bc.edu/~leonardr/Backups/Read_Me.html Have Fun. Rich Leonard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 May 1998 13:13:38 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Problems Hi Jerry, Sorry for the delay, I was out buying more toys. I have seen and heard of the CM11 creating these fake messages before, but it is also possible that one of your 'wireless transceivers' (?) are doing it. One of the new things I am adding to XTension is the automatic detection of 'flooding' of the powerlines with any command. Nothing I can do but report it, but at least XTension can still get to the telephone to tell you about it, or beep incessantly ? You should of course try to isolate the culprit by a process of elimination, starting with the 'voodoo' for the CM11... I haven't seen one of my CM11s do the repeated thing for about a year now. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 May 1998 13:17:31 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Back up Scripts Cool Rich ! I see that you have a mechanism for deleting 'old' log files etc. This is a little thing that can 'eat' a log of disk space...my logs often approach a half megabyte each day. Since both of my XTension Macs have 'small' disk drives, I do have to make sure that I move them periodically to some archive machine... THANKS again for keeping up your website, and others too. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 May 1998 17:56:39 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Back up Scripts Rich, Thanks for the great work! Greg At 3:43 PM -0400 5/22/98, Rich Leonard wrote: >Hi, >Finally managed to bring copies of some scripts to work so I could put them on >the Web server. I have a set of scripts that back up the Attachments, >Database, and Scripts folder to both a back up folder on the harddrive and a >floppy disk. I have an event that runs once a week and calls the master >script which in turn runs each of the other scripts. I set the XTension >"backup Database" preference to never. In my shut down script I display a >dialog and ask if the database should be backed up. > >Makes sense to automate the backup of the automation files! > >The URL is > >http://www2.bc.edu/~leonardr/Backups/Read_Me.html > >Have Fun. > >Rich Leonard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/23/98 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:44:44 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> scripting questions by Ken Victor -> Re: scripting questions by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 May 1998 15:37:14 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: scripting questions question 1 according to the manual the "last timestamp" verb returns the time stamp for the named unit, ie, the time of last change to the data base for that unit/group. consider if i have a unit named FirstLight at Time1 i turn on FirstLight; and at Time2 I again turn on FirstLight. based on my reading of the manual, i would have expected "last timestamp" to return Time1 since there would have been no need to change the database since the state of FirstLight would not have changed as far as xtension is/was concerned. however, empiracally, "last timestamp" returns Time2. is this a bug? or a bug in the manual? or did i misunderstand the manual? if this is the intended behavior, when exactly (and completely) is a unit time stamped in the database? question 2 same question but with respect to "time delta" question 3 what is the scope of a variable (declared as a property) in an on/off script for a unit? lets say in my on script for unit "XYZ" i have the following applescript statements: property propABC : 0 set propABC to (current date) empiracally it seems as if the scope of propABC is the enclosing on script. is this correct? and thus if i have similar statements in the off script, the off script will in fact refer to a different version of propABC. thanx, ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 May 1998 16:28:15 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: scripting questions Hi Ken, The answers to your first two questions are the same. Every time a unit's value is 'set' by any command, whether manual or via script or scheduled event, the 'time stamp' is also set. The 'value' of a unit is not set until After the script for that unit is executed (IF any). Thus, within a unit's script, the 'time stamp' has not yet been set, therefore you can safely (logically) test the last time that the unit was 'set'. NB: Regardless of the current state of a unit, any Turn on/off, Dim/Bri, or set value of command will always cause the 'time stamp' to be updated. This means that even if the unit was OFF, and you command it OFF again, the time stamp will be updated. The 'Time Delta' is a derivitive of the 'time stamp', and is simply the number of seconds difference between the current time and the 'time stamp' of the unit. Your assumption of the 'locality' of the property declared within a ON/OFF script is correct...ie: it is valid only within the context of that script. You may of course declare properties within the Attachments script which can be referred to from all other scripts. hth michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/24/98 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:45:11 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Freeze on Scheduled Backup by Darryl Tang -> Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 May 1998 06:51:14 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Freeze on Scheduled Backup I mentioned this system freeze problem in a prior post a couple days ago: when performing a scheduled backup, the entire system will sometimes freeze up, requiring a reboot. The scheduled backup process is almost certainly the triggering event as the last log item was "Backing up the database..." and the log time matched the time shown on the frozen menu bar clock. I thought that possibly the problem was System 8.1 running on my Performa 475, but I did a clean install with 7.6.1 and the same freeze occurred again this morning. The only third party extension on my Performa is Keyquencer 2.1, which has been extremely stable for me over the years. I'm going to set the scheduled backup to every minute and see if I can get it to repeat the freeze. May also try disabling it entirely and see if the system stays up. Any other ideas would be appreciated. Darryl _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com - -end message- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 May 1998 07:38:09 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup Hello Darryl, Thank you for taking the time to help me isolate this problem. I am running one copy of XTension on a PowerBook which is running OS 7.6. It has been saving the database every 3 hours ever since I released 1.7.3, and it has never frozen up... I do have a few things like the YoYo and Timbuktu on the same machine, but I have an aversion to little software trinkets therefore I fear that there is some interaction going on that is not going to be easy to find. I have received several suggestions about what might be happening, but most have been dead ends in that XTension uses no 'cute' Mac features, and is really very 'vanilla' code. What is interesting is that there have not been more of these events reported compared with the number of copies of XTension and the membership of this list. Again, thanks for helping. A repeatable bug is a dead one. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/25/98 Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:45:03 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Help! by jprsha@IDT.NET -> Re: Help! by michael@shed.com -> RE: some questions by john@netmac.net -> Re: some questions by michael@shed.com -> Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup by Ken Victor -> Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup by michael@shed.com -> Mail storm by Sven U. Grenander -> time by Ken Victor -> Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: Help! by jprsha@IDT.NET -> Re: time by michael@shed.com -> Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by michael@shed.com -> True Rocker Action??? by Jason Grazado -> Re: Monitor mode (was Help!) by michael@shed.com -> Re: True Rocker Action??? by john@netmac.net -> Re: True Rocker Action??? by michael@shed.com -> Re: True Rocker Action??? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? by Gunsmoke Engineering -> 1.7.3 update by john@netmac.net -> Dim Again by Pierre Metivier -> Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup by Darryl Tang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 07:05:46 -0700 From: jprsha@IDT.NET Subject: Help! Michael Help! I tried to use the dual machine method and was unsuccessful. That's not the problem. Problem is that my main XTension machine keeps coming up in monitor mode only and if I'm not here to catch it, nothing happens. I tried to get to the startup script to change it but it won't show in the scripts lists to edit. Is there anything I can do to delete the Startup script? Jerry - -------------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri ? U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 07:17:21 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Help! jprsha@IDT.NET wrote: > > Michael Help! > > I tried to use the dual machine method and was unsuccessful. That's not > the problem. Problem is that my main XTension machine keeps coming up in > monitor mode only and if I'm not here to catch it, nothing happens. I tried > to get to the startup script to change it but it won't show in the scripts > lists to edit. Is there anything I can do to delete the Startup script? Hi Jerry, I need more info: Is there a 'startup' script at all? You normally have to create it. If you see a startup script and you can't edit it, then you perhaps have a corrupted database. You may need to do a whole export/import of your database (into a blank one). (Let's talk more first) If you have set 'monitor off', and quit softly, then you have the problem where the 'prefs' are not sticking. Since I still haven't found the reason for this, and only a few have reported it, I would like to have more info about how this happens. DID the prefs Ever 'stick' on that Mac? XTension should stick to its 'monitor/not' prefs, and you should never have to set this at startup. The scripting verb for setting the monitor mode is for cases when you are in a redundant set, and one Mac fails...the other can 'take over'. This is the way you spend your precious holiday ?! I've got some free tickets to Busch Gardens if you need :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 11:31:30 -0700 From: john@netmac.net Subject: RE: some questions I'm new to using Xtension... but have dutifully plowed through the docs... and have done alot... the more I learn... the more my 'horizons' get expanded - --------------------------------------- Question #1: I see how to open different "View" windows...and bring them to the front... Is there a way to close specific "View" windows...? or maybe just close the front window...? - --------------------------------------- Question #2: Is there a way to place an object in a view that is larger than a 32x32 icon...? Question #3: Is there a way to set an object or icon that is 'single clickable'...? in other words, a 'button'...? - --------------------------------------- I've look everywhere in the docx for these answers am I missing something... If this has been answered before sorry.. but have only been receiving this NG for a few weeks Otherwise.... Thanx guys for what is probably the coolest (and personally most useful) application that runs on a Macintosh!!! - -- ___________________________________________________ John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 System Administratior | john@netmac.net Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net WE ARE AN ALL MACINTOSH ISP IN WEST CENTRAL FLORIDA ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 12:02:53 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: some questions Hi John, I'm very pleased that you are having such fun ! answer to question 1 : There is a new verb in version 1.7.4 that allows you to close/open any window, but the simplest way to send away the 'front window' is to use the Macintosh standard : Command-W keystroke Question 2: There is not yet a way to create icons which are larger than 32x32 Question 3: No single-clickable icons yet... Thanks for the comments, I hope that I can answer more of your questions in the affirmative in the future... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 12:27:00 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup i too have had crashes (and have reported them to michael) in which the last log entry was "Backing up the database..." and the log time matched the time shown on the frozen menu bar clock. in my case, most of the time i've crashed into macsbug. however, if you don't have macsbug installed, then a freeze is not an uncommon result of possibly the same cause. in at least one of my crashes, macsbug indicated that the xtension heap (memory) was corrupted. bugs such as what i am seeing and the freeze that you are reporting are often (but not necessarily always) caused by memory errors in which an application (most often the crashing application) writes someplace in memory where it shouldn't. the fact that michael hasn't seen this on his powerbook does not mean that the bug is not in xtension. no matter how long he has been running his configuration. memory layout and contents are different on every mac and varies based on hardware installed, system and enablers installed, extensions and control panels installed, size of memory, size of disk cache, size of ram disk, number of other applications running, etc. so an application that writes where it shouldn't be may cause a freeze on one machine, and may get away with it on another machine. michael's machine seems to be able to get away with it; while mine and your machines aren't so lucky (if my hypothesis is correct). what this boils down to is that it may or may not be a bug in xtension and/or be caused by some sort of conflict and that it is going to be very difficult for michael to find until he or one of us can came up with some kind of repeatable situation. based on what i can guess of xtension's implementation, i would agree that it probably "uses no 'cute' Mac features, and is really very 'vanilla' code." my one caveat to this might be that xtension makes HEAVY use of scripting and apple events. while the use of apple events is neither particualarily "cute" or "non-vanilla", it can be tricky for a programmer (this is the burnt voice of experience talking here): some apple event calls allocate memory and others expect the app to have pre-allocated memory; similarily some apple event calls free up memory (whether they allocated it or not) and others don't. if a programmer isn't "perfect" then the app could wind up attempting to write into some memory that has been freed or been allocated for some other purpose -- either of these cases can then blow up later... i've enclosed the output of the apple system profiler in this email. as you can see, my xtension machine is basically a vanilla installation (ie, very few non apple extensions and control panels). perhaps we should all be sending these system profiles in for bugs of this nature so that michael can attempt to discover and patterns of offense. ken Report Generated: Mon, May 25, 1998 at 11:45 AM System Overview Customer Care Code: 4458 7464 5250 9844 Machine: Macintosh Quadra 840AV Machine ID: 78 Finder: v8.1 System: v8.1 US Processor: 68040 at 40 MHz Active Enabler: n/a OpenDoc: None Memory Installed: 16 MB Virtual Memory: is on Total Memory: 24 MB Disk Cache: is on, 256K Startup Device: Unknown Networking Information File Sharing: is on AppleTalk Zone: Unknown Chosen Printer: LaserWriter 8 (8.5.1) at Ken's Color 12/660 PS in AppleTalk zone: Unknown Active Port(s): Ethernet built-in Network Software: Open Transport (v1.3) present and loaded AppleTalk present and loaded TCP/IP present and loaded Internet (TCP/IP): Address: 207.181.209.139 NetMask: 255.255.255.248 Gateway: 207.181.209.137 DNS: 140.174.162.14 Domain: Volume Information Total Found: 2 Name: Kens840AV Kind: Hard Disk Size: 127.9 MB Space Available: 27.5 MB Bus: SCSI Bus 0 ID: 0 Mounted: Yes Write Protected: No Where: FWB Async 0 ID:0 v1.7.5 Name: Apps Kind: Hard Disk Size: 105.9 MB Space Available: 80.4 MB Bus: SCSI Bus 0 ID: 0 Mounted: Yes Write Protected: No Where: FWB Async 0 ID:0 v1.7.5 Device Information Total Buses Found: 1 Bus: SCSI Bus 0 ID: 0 Device Type: Hard Drive Capacity: 234 MB Vendor: QUANTUM Product ID: LP240S GM240S01X Revision Number: 6.3 Interface Type: SCSI-2 Removable Media: No HFS Partitions: 2 Bus: SCSI Bus 0 ID: 3 Device Type: CD-ROM Drive Capacity: n/a Vendor: SONY Product ID: CD-ROM CDU-8003A Revision Number: 1.9a Interface Type: SCSI-2 Removable Media: Yes HFS Partitions: n/a Control Panel Information Total Found: 49 * Appearance (1.0.1) Apple Menu Options (1.1.3) * AppleTalk (1.1) * Auto Power On/Off (1.1) AutoRemounter (1.3) * Cache Switch (7.0.1) * ColorSyncA System Profile (2.1) Config PPP (1.0.5) * Date & Time (8.0.1) * Desktop Pictures (1.0.1) * Desktop PrintMonitor (2.1) * DialAssist (2.1) Extensions Manager (4.0.3) * FAXQueue Monitor (2.3.1) * File Sharing (8.0) * General Controls (7.7) * Keyboard (8.0) Launcher (3.1) Mac OS Easy Open (1.1.3) * MacTCP DNR * Map (7.5.1) * Memory (7.5.9) * Modem (1.0.1) * Monitors & Sound (1.3.3) * Mouse (7.5.4) Now FolderMenus (6.7) * Now Menus (6.7) Now Shortcuts (6.7) * Now Startup Manager (7.5) Now Super Boomerang (6.7) Now Tabs (6.7) Now WYSIWYG Menus (6.7) * Numbers (7.1) PC Exchange (2.2) PPP (1.0.1) * PrintMonitor (7.1.2) * QuickDay (3.5) * QuicKeys (3.5) * QuickTimeA Settings (2.5) Remote Access Setup (2.1) Speech (1.5) Speed CopyA 8 Server (8.0.1) * Startup Disk (7.6.2) * TCP/IP (1.3) * Text (7.1) * Users & Groups (8.0) * VersaLink (1.71) * ~ATMA ( 4.0.2) * #161#Retrospect Client (4.0) Extension Information Total Found: 87 * Kensington Startup (5.02) * Now Toolbox (6.7) EM Extension (4.0.3) PJ 4x (4.7.2) PJ Classic (4.7.2) PJ Power (4.7.2) PJ Power5 (4.7.2) Port Juggler (4.7.2) * VersaLink INIT (1.71) * Appearance Extension (1.0.1) * Apple Built-In Ethernet (1.0.5) * Apple CD-ROM (5.4.2) * Apple Color SW Pro CMM (1.0.1) * Apple Ethernet NB (1.0.3) * Apple Guide (2.2) * Apple Modem Tool (1.5.3) * Apple Photo Access (5.2) * AppleGuideGlueLib.68K (2.1) * AppleGuideGlueLib.PPC (2.1) * AppleScriptLib (1.2.2) * AppleScriptA (1.1.2) * AppleShare (3.7.4) Audio CD Access (5.1) * Clipping Extension (7.1.4) * Color Picker (2.1.1) * ColorSyncLib68K (2.0.1) * ColorSyncA (2.1.2) * Contextual Menu Extension (1.0.1) * Desktop Printer Spooler (2.1) * Desktop PrintMonitor (2.1) * EtherTalk Phase 2 (2.5.7) * FaxMonitor (2.3.1) * FaxPrint (2.3.1) * FAXQueue Monitor (2.3.1) * FAXQueue Watcher (2.3.1) * File Sharing Extension (7.6.2) * File Sharing Library (8.0) Finder Extensions Enabler (1.1.0) * Foreign File Access (5.2) * High Sierra File Access (5.2) * Internet Access (1.0) * Internet Config Extension (1.3) * ISO 9660 File Access (5.2) * LaserWriter 8 (8.5.1) MacinTalk 3 (1.4) * MacsBug (6.5.4a3) MetroNub (1.2.1) * NuDragLib.slb (1.1) * NuQuickTimeLib.slb (2.0.1) * NuThreadsLib.slb (2.1.1) * ObjectSupportLib (1.2) * Open Tpt AppleTalk Library (1.3) * Open Tpt Internet Library (1.3) * Open Transport Library (1.3) * OpenTpt Modem 68K (1.0.1) * OpenTpt Remote Access 68K (1.0.1) * OpenTpt Serial Arbitrator (1.0.1) * OpenTptAppleTalkLib (1.3) * OpenTptInternetLib (1.3) * OpenTransportLib (1.3) * PowerChute Startup (2.0.1) * PPP (1.0.5) * PrintingLib (8.5.1) * PrintMonitor (7.1.2) * Quadra AV Monitors Extension (7.5) * Quadra Monitors Extension (7.5) QuicKeys Toolbox (3.5) * QuickTimeA (2.5) QuickTimeA Musical Instruments (2.5) QuickTimeA VR (2.0.1) Remote Access Aliases (2.0.1) Remote Only (2.1) * Retro.Startup (3.0) * Serial Tool (1.0.2) * Shared Library Manager (2.0.1) * Shared Library Manager PPC (2.0.1) * SOMobjectsA for Mac OS (2.0.8) Speech Manager (1.4) * SystemAV (1.3.3) * Text Encoding Converter (1.3) * Text Tool (1.0.1) * Timbuktu Extension (4.0.2) * TTY Tool (1.0.1) * Video Startup (1.7.1) * VT102 Tool (1.0.2) * XMODEM Tool (1.1) #161#AppleVision (1.5.2) System Folder Information Total Found: 1 Kens840AV:System u ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 13:10:04 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup Hi Folks, I wanted to clarify what I mean when I say that my copies of XTension aren't crashing. I don't mean that I think that the problem is NOT in XTension, but rather that it is a good Data point in this troubleshooting. IE: Some of us don't see the crash associated with backup of the XTension database. By knowing that some are and some aren't having a problem, we can isolate the problem by comparing the systems. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 14:03:00 -0700 From: Sven U. Grenander Subject: Mail storm Let's hope that doesn't happen again for a while ... >yes, there is some kind of problem with the listserv, I'm getting it too... >any suggested solutions? I deleted them all, came back, and there were >more... >expect to get a lot of copies of this. :) ... > >>I don't know if I'm the only one getting this, but the listserv keeps >>sending me this same message over and over again about every ten seconds. >>Please, someone make it stop! My account is full... It wasn't the list server, it was quite well behaved. I wish I could say the same for Eudora Internet Mail Server. I still don't know what the problem was, but EIMS selected some 50 random (?) victims to pester and kept sending messages to them every few minutes. I finally got it stopped by deleting the outbound mail folder, but since I don't know why it happened to start with I'm a bit uncomfortable with the solution. Sorry 'bout that. - -Sven _____________________________________________________________________ Sven U. Grenander BeeHive Technologies, Inc. http://www.bzzzzzz.com - with a WebCam in Pasadena, California _____________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 15:38:24 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: time what is the relationship between the number returned by the "last timestamp" verb and the number of seconds since 1/1/1904 12:00am (time 0 in mac time) which is returned by the apple standard osax Current Date? if i just set/reset a unit then i would expect its timestamp to be within a few counts of: (current date) - date "1/1/1904" --used to convert a date object to a number however, this simply isn't the case. also the example in the manual: time string for last timestamp doesn't work on my system at all... i get the sense that i'm missing something basic... i just don't know what it is... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 16:20:49 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? At 12:16 PM -0700 on 5/21/98, Mitchell S. Cohen wrote: > I have an APC UPS. Their PowerChute software works well as an >automatic > shutdown. There's also a freeware on the info-mac mirrors for >a similar > function. And I imagine writing your own software would be simple. With the APC UPS models over 400W, a connector at the back provides a contact closure that can be monitored with a powerflash. I've set XTension up to send a "Power OFF" page if, after 5 minutes, power is still off. When power comes back on, I get another page saying so. I haven't gotten around do doing an orderly shutdown yet, but that's probably the proper thing to do. Hope this helps, - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 17:13:31 -0700 From: jprsha@IDT.NET Subject: Re: Help! - -->This is the way you spend your precious holiday ?! - -->I've got some free tickets to Busch Gardens if you need :-) - --> michael heheh.. I was going to offer them to you since I work for them! hehe No.. I changed the preference and when I restart, it comes up the same way. I assumed that it was in the Startup script but when I try to view it in the list, it's not there. I tried to create a blank to cover up the old one and it let me do that, BUT.. still tries to connect to the remote Mac.. which seems like there's a phanton script somewhere? Once I change the prefs, it works but I need to manually do it. I haven't deleted the prefs file yet... Prefs have never stuck before... Jerry - -------------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri ? U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 17:24:20 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: time Hello Ken, I thought you would run into this sooner! I have had several comments about this as it regards some difference between what some folks expect and what we do... I'm still not sure what the difference is, since we get the time from the Mac using the GetDateTime function. But the "Time string for" is a verb that comes from the OSAX that has been around since the beginning of AppleScript. It is from the "GTQ Programming" suite. (see last paste) I'm really not sure just what the confusion has always been, but maybe from the following you can offer some suggestions :-) michael Here is the code snippit which really Gets the time which is stored as the 'timestamp' : - --- void TimestampUnit(CommandTableEntryPtr entry) { UInt32 time; GetDateTime(&time); entry->timestamp = time; } - ------- and here's the code that returns the timestamp when you ask for it in a script : pascal OSErr HandleGetLastTime ( AEDescList* aevt, AEDescList* reply, long refCon ) { OSErr theErr = noErr; AEDesc target; AEDesc replyDesc; Str255 str; UInt32 time; target.dataHandle = nil; replyDesc.dataHandle = nil; // try to get the unit parameter if (!(theErr = AEGetParamDesc(aevt, keyDirectObject, typeWildCard, &target))) { theErr = DescToPString(&target, str, kMaxStringSize); if (theErr == noErr) { theErr = GetUnitTimestamp(str, &time); if (theErr == noErr) { theErr = AECreateDesc(typeLongInteger, (Ptr)&time, sizeof(long), &replyDesc); if (theErr == noErr) if (reply->descriptorType != typeNull) theErr = AEPutParamDesc(reply, keyDirectObject, &replyDesc); - --------- here is the text from the Script Editor, viewing the OSAX for "time string for" : GTQ Programming Suite: Copyright (r) 1993 GTQ Programming. time string for: formats the number of seconds since midnight, Jan 1, 1904 that you pass into a time string time string for real -- the number of seconds since midnight, Jan 1, 1904 [seconds boolean] -- true or false if you want the seconds included in the string Result: string -- the time string ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 17:30:30 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? Hello Scot, Just how do the Powerflash send the signal if the power is off ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 17:58:19 -0700 From: Jason Grazado Subject: True Rocker Action??? Hi All, I just got my big box of toys for the new house I closed on a week ago and am getting my first look at a Leviton Decora Home Control dimmer wall switch, #6381-WI. I must say I find the 'action' to feel rather flimsy. The lower half depresses, but not the upper. Is this normal? Is there a better switch out there? On a semi-related matter, I did buy a couple of leviton in-wall controllers, 3 device + bright/dim. I like the action on these, but I can't figure out how to open it to set the housecode, etc. Any help is appreciated - the manual did not make it very clear and I don't want to break a $50 switch! Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:02:41 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Monitor mode (was Help!) jprsha@IDT.NET wrote: > No.. I changed the preference and when I restart, it comes up the same > way. I assumed that it was in the Startup script but when I try to view it > in the list, it's not there. I tried to create a blank to cover up the old > one and it let me do that, BUT.. still tries to connect to the remote Mac.. > which seems like there's a phanton script somewhere? > Once I change the prefs, it works but I need to manually do it. I > haven't deleted the prefs file yet... Prefs have never stuck before... Hi Jerry, If your other 'Prefs' do 'stick' after a restart, then it is possible that you do have a 'phantom' Startup Script. The problem of the phantom scripts is an old one, and it is likely that you got it from the XTension database which comes with the Demo... did you build your home database by starting with a 'fresh' empty database or did you just modify the original? It is likely that the 'phantom' startup script is explicitly setting the Monitor mode 'true'. The only solution I know for this is to do a complete Export/Import of your database into a fresh one: - ---------- Do a complete 'Database:Export' from your current system. Be sure to select only those items which you know are part of your system. Name this file "Jerrys Export" ? Then, quit XTension, and Rename the XTension database to "OLD database" Then, restart XTension. When XTension sees No file called "XTension Database", it will create a new 'fresh' empty one. Then, IMPORT the saved file from above, and XTension should build a database which is 'clean' and hopefully devoid of any 'phantoms'. - ------------ You might occasionally want to run the "DBaudit" program which is found on the website 'downloads' page. It will often show whether there are any phantoms or funnies in your database. In work michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:12:34 -0700 From: john@netmac.net Subject: Re: True Rocker Action??? Jason Grazado wrote: > > Hi All, > > I just got my big box of toys for the new house I closed on a week ago > and am getting my first look at a Leviton Decora Home Control dimmer wall > switch, #6381-WI. I must say I find the 'action' to feel rather flimsy. > The lower half depresses, but not the upper. Is this normal? Is there a > better switch out there? > > On a semi-related matter, I did buy a couple of leviton in-wall > controllers, 3 device + bright/dim. I like the action on these, but I > can't figure out how to open it to set the housecode, etc. Any help is > appreciated - the manual did not make it very clear and I don't want to > break a $50 switch! > > Thanks, > > Jason That controlers keypad his 'hinged' on one end and the 'grip' of the electrial pins keeps the other end snug.... I think is the bottom of the keypad that is pinned.. if you grab it firmly and rock it back & forth... left/right and pull the keypad away from the controller it will slowly unplug, then swing the keypad up towards the top of the controller to disengage the the keypag clip from the top the entire device is reasonibly stout so don't be afraid of flexing on it (well... within reason!) - -- ___________________________________________________ John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 System Administratior | john@netmac.net Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:22:34 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: True Rocker Action??? Jason Grazado wrote: > I just got my big box of toys for the new house I closed on a week ago > and am getting my first look at a Leviton Decora Home Control dimmer wall > switch, #6381-WI. I must say I find the 'action' to feel rather flimsy. > The lower half depresses, but not the upper. Is this normal? Is there a > better switch out there? Sheesh, I think that this is the one that everyone likes compared to the really cheap X-10 models...:-( > On a semi-related matter, I did buy a couple of leviton in-wall > controllers, 3 device + bright/dim. I like the action on these, but I > can't figure out how to open it to set the housecode, etc. Any help is > appreciated - the manual did not make it very clear and I don't want to > break a $50 switch! Is this one of those that look like this: ?? If so, then the whole 'panel' holding the buttons 'lifts off'. Pry with a screwdriver from the BOTTOM of the panel until it just begins to come free. Then it should be easy to pull off from there. The 'connector' is at the top of the panel. Theoretically it pulls straight out, but you have to have a pretty strong grip... hth michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:29:37 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: True Rocker Action??? YAAAAAA! please disregard my post which said that the connector pins were at the top. I just looked at the HAS catalog and it shows that I was completely reversed... Thanks to John too who had it right. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:29:56 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Powwerfail Recovery and UPS? Remember, we're talking UPS here. There's a power strip powered by the UPS, and the pf plugs in there. When power goes off, the UPS "power failure" contacts close, the pf sends an "ON" to the Lynx (also on the power strip), then on to XTension for whatever else is supposed to happen... Hope that helps, Scot Marburger At 5:31 PM -0700 on 5/25/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > Hello Scot, > > Just how do the Powerflash send the signal if > the power is off ? > > michael - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 18:38:02 -0700 From: john@netmac.net Subject: 1.7.3 update Just dloaded the 1.7.3 update to Xtension from the downloads page... when I go to launch the app... it asks for the original disk.. which I insert... It then tells me the disk is corrupt.. and to call sand hill... I checked the disk.. It is not corrupt Anybody know anything about this....* - -- ___________________________________________________ John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 System Administratior | john@netmac.net Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 19:36:02 -0700 From: Pierre Metivier Subject: Dim Again HELP I have been trying to get the 6381 switch to dim via a remote controller and have not yet been successful. Oh It dims to varying degrees that true but not repeatable. I have used a solar cell, to make sure I can measure reproducible relative intensities.I have tried giving commands to X10 type switches, where it goes to max then to some level (not the same when I go back to same dim value-sometimes close). I have tried "Send data" commands in Xtension-no response from switches (as per Pierre Raymond). I have listened to all sorts of discussions, which I mostly follow. But bottom line I cant seem to make it work PROPERLY. Is there a controller or commands (scripts) the can be used to get a lamp to a known intensity no matter where it was set (to force it to an Intensity). I sure would appreciate it if someone out there could give me a definitive answer, one way or another, as I dont appear to be able to figure it out. Please Pierre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 1998 22:24:34 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup >i too have had crashes (and have reported them to michael) in which the >last log entry was "Backing up the database..." and the log time matched >the time shown on the frozen menu bar clock. Ken, thanks for the information. I noted that you are also running and '040 machine, and I recall that some applications had problems with this processor when they first came out. There is a control panel called "Cache Switch" or something to that effect that turns off the cache and is supposed to render the machine more compatible with older apps. Maybe I'll try turning off the cache and see what happens. BTW, I switched off scheduled backups and had no problems with crashes. However, this evening I manually tried to backup the database from the Database menu and the system froze on me again, which strongly suggests that any backup, whether automatic or manual, can cause a freeze. I was forced to reboot and XTension reported that my database was corrupted. I replaced it with a backup copy and it worked fine. Subsequent manual backups did not freeze the system. I will try to run the system without automatic backups, and manual backups only when I make scripting changes to see if I encounter any other stability problems. Thanks, and keep me posted! Darryl _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com - -end message- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/26/98 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:45:08 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: 1.7.3 update by rob@whidbey.com -> Re: 1.7.3 update by Steve Fyfe -> re: Re: some questions by Ken Victor -> Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup by Ken Victor -> Re: time by Ken Victor -> Re: some questions by michael@shed.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 05:44:46 -0700 From: rob@whidbey.com Subject: Re: 1.7.3 update The disk has to be renamed properly, tho I forget what the magic name is...something with the version number of XTension. John Eriksen wrote: > Just dloaded the 1.7.3 update to Xtension from the > downloads page... when I go to launch the app... > it asks for the original disk.. which I insert... > It then tells me the disk is corrupt.. > and to call sand hill... > > I checked the disk.. It is not corrupt > > Anybody know anything about this....* > -- > ___________________________________________________ > John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 > System Administratior | john@netmac.net > Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net > Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net > ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 09:20:02 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: 1.7.3 update > Just dloaded the 1.7.3 update to Xtension from the > downloads page... when I go to launch the app... > it asks for the original disk.. which I insert... > It then tells me the disk is corrupt.. If your disk is for a version before 1.7, then just rename the disk to "XTension 1.7" _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 12:24:38 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: re: Re: some questions >answer to question 1 : >There is a new verb in version 1.7.4 that allows you to >close/open any window, but the simplest way to send >away the 'front window' is to use the Macintosh >standard : Command-W keystroke i hope i've jumped to conclusions and that i'm just over reacting... :-) i haven't seen 1.7.4 yet, so i don't know if you have verbs "Open Window" and "Close Window". I HOPE NOT! the standard applescript language -- as defined by the implementations of many/most applications -- already has language contructs for the verbs "open" and "close" and for the object/class "window". i can see no good and nothing but trouble and confusion if you are introducing verbs "open window" and "close window" if you must have your own verbs, then please use something like: "xt.open.window" and "xt.close.window", and make sure the internal ids don't conflict with the standards for open/close/window. hope i'm just over reacting... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 12:25:12 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Re: Freeze on Scheduled Backup >Ken, thanks for the information. I noted that you are also running and >'040 machine, and I recall that some applications had problems with this >processor when they first came out. There is a control panel called "Cache >Switch" or something to that effect that turns off the cache and is >supposed to render the machine more compatible with older apps. Maybe I'll >try turning off the cache and see what happens. most (never can say all :-) ) apps that didn't work with the 040 cache were because they used what is called "self modifying code". in general (again, can't say always...) this is considered a "no-no" in modern programming and apple had been warning developers against it for years before the arrival of the 040s. (note there are some other "tricks" having to do with moving code/data around and executing data that could also cause problems with the 040 cache.) i would be quite surprised if this is a problem for xtension based on my guesses as to how the program works (note that i am not associated with shed in any way, and these statements are just based on gut feel and what i have gleemed of michael and xtension as a user...) >BTW, I switched off scheduled backups and had no problems with crashes. >However, this evening I manually tried to backup the database from the >Database menu and the system froze on me again, which strongly suggests >that any backup, whether automatic or manual, can cause a freeze. I was >forced to reboot and XTension reported that my database was corrupted. I >replaced it with a backup copy and it worked fine. i can't say for sure, but i believe i've had similar experience in that i had a corrupted data base. however, i couldn't use a backup data base as it too was corrupted. i was able to create a non-corrupted db via the export/delete old db/import route. i don't remember timing of events to recall if i've had crashes/freezes since db repair. however, even if the crashes freezes are due to a corrupted db, i don't believe that this really lets xtension off the hook. how is the db getting corrupted in the first place? and why does xtension crash with bad data instead of fixing/deleting the bad data... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 12:25:33 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Re: time michael, thanx for the code... there is a bug there and last night after i had shut down my system and before i received this code in the digest i thought of something to try today to explore. well i did my test and it verifies my hypothesis and the code also validates my hypothesis and i'll tell you in just a moment... try the following in xtension: write log (current time) write log (-(current time)) / days you'll discover that the second result is off by roughly a factor of 2 as determined by the rough calculation of (4 * 365)! if you then try: set theTime to (current date - date "1/1/1904") write log theTime write log (-theTime) / days you'll get the right answers... the problem in the code is the "confusion" and inconsistant use of UInt32 (an unsigned long) and typeLongInteger (which is a signed 32 bit entry). when a UInt32 is converted to a long, i believe its sign bit is discarded and the low order 31 bits are sign extended to yield a 32 bit signed quantity, ie, the number is effectively halved!!! this problem was aggravated by apple in that apple used to declare "time" as a long, ie, a signed 32 bit quantity. but sometime recently (ie in the past couple of years) apple converted "time" to be a UInt32 as it should have been all along. in any case, hope this helps and that you can fix things now... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 May 1998 12:35:02 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: some questions Hi Ken, The new verbs are 'front window' and 'hide window'. The 'front window' has been there for some time, but there wasn't a way to hide one. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/27/98 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:45:10 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> by KVictor@POBox.com -> by KVictor@POBox.com -> Re: repeaters by michael@shed.com -> Live shots of the Pond by michael@shed.com -> by KVictor@POBox.com -> by KVictor@POBox.com -> Cute Turns to Security by joe -> Re: Cute Turns to Security by michael@shed.com -> Re: Live shots of the Pond by jprsha@IDT.NET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 10:43:46 -0700 From: KVictor@POBox.com Subject: : 1.0 : text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kvictor@pop.dnai.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:36:10 -0700 To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: Ken Victor Subject: noise problems buried.... problem history / summary i have a small (roughly 1400 sq. ft.) home built in the mid 1950's. i've been an x10 user since the early 80s. i have controllers and receivers sprinkled through out my home on all 6 circuits on both phases of the 110/240V. i have had various problems with noise causing missed signals since day one. a year or so ago, i installed a (leviton 6299) bridge and all my problems seemed to go away: in that any controller could successfully get a signal to any receiver. then along comes the cm11a!. when the cm11a was plugged into one of the odd circuits, it could apparently transmit successfully to all my receivers, but it would only see commands transmitted from other controllers also plugged into one of the odd circuits; in other words it missed signals coming from controllers plugged into any of the even circuits. if it plugged the cm11a into an even circuit (via a long extension cord from my kitchen to my computer room), it could then apparently see signals from all my controllers (regardless of where they were plugged in). However, it could no longer reliably get signals thru to recievers plugged into odd circuits. seemed to me i was damned if i did and damned if i didn't. i had a choice of getting signals out from the cm11a or into the cm11a, but not in and out at the same time. and it didn't seem practical to change where the cm11a was plugged in prior to transmitting a command :-). it also wasn't practical to change the wiring at the circuit breaker to place all my x10 equipment (transmitters and receivers) on the same phase - -- i have units on all the circuits used in my house place througt out the house. nor did it seem practical to order a bunch of local noise eliminators and go thru trying to identify applicances, etc. that were generating noise... a seemingly successful (and expensive) work around yesterday a leviton amplifying bridge arrived and since it is wired the same way as the old non-amplifying bridge, it was a matter of minutes to remove the old bridge and install the new bridge. (it then took about an hour to finish installation as it was placed outdoors next to my circuit breaker box and it required a trip to the old hardware store to get a larger outdoor rain proof box to hold the new bridge and to reset all the clocks in my house :-) ) while i consider the bridge expensive (roughly $225 considering tax and shipping to me in northern ca), it seems to work and for the past 24 hours the cm11a hasn't seemed to miss successfully controlling anything nor missed any signals!!! i think i may be happy for a while. i'm hedging here because this approach is truly a sledge hammer approach that is treating the symtoms -- by increasing the signal to noise ration -- rather than the root causes -- the noise generation. i'll let this list know if i experience any further problems... thanx to all for your help, ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 10:45:07 -0700 From: KVictor@POBox.com Subject: : 1.0 : text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kvictor@pop.dnai.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:44:00 -0700 To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: Ken Victor Subject: misc for sale and wanted Leviton 6299 bridge (see my previous post) - $30 plus shipping; includes original box and instructions. CP290 with mac cable - $30 plus shipping. there are two of these. i've got a second cm11a scheduled to arrive shortly and i'll need a mac serial cable for it... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 10:57:40 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: repeaters Hi Ken, I'm with you on the amplifier/repeater, it is costly, but wow, does it peak up the signals! As an aside, I found enough room in my main circuit box to stuff the repeater...After I removed it from that big aluminum box and wrapped it with rubber tape. No external box necessary...but it is safer and more 'legal'. Also, I will give you another cable, it's the least I can do in return for your help. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 12:34:18 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Live shots of the Pond Hi Folks, I've mentioned this before, but today I installed another 'security' camera. This time I put a camera at the Pond which is about 300' from the main house and the video switcher. The idea of cameras is great for security, but there is another benefit which I can't rave enough about. Being able to view certain areas around the Hill at will, just for pure enjoyment. While I'm chained to the keyboard, I can use the cameras for additional TV channels. Now I can wake in the morning to the TV tuned to the camera pointed at the Pond and watch the sun come up and the birds and dragonflys... The most significant thing is that I now know that I can drive the video signal from these cameras into a little Radio Shack video amplifier and 'push' the signal over 300' ! I do use RG59 coaxial cable from the amplifier to the house, but I was worried that it wouldn't push the distance. I have some cameras which are over 200' away, but this is the first time that I tried this distance. The amplifier I use is a $29.95 Audio/Video Distribution Amplifier (Cat No. 15-1103) and there are some additional benefits. The amplifier is meant for stereo/video, and has 3 inputs and 3 sets of outputs for each input. Thus, if one of the inputs or outputs gets zapped by the lightning, I can switch to another set and still use the device. (already have had to do this once) Even though the other two inputs are marked 'audio', they do still accept and amplify the video signals just fine. Couple this with the neat idea of controlling each camera with a simple X-10 Appliance Module, and by turning on only one camera at a time, I can drive the video signals into a simple 'splitter' and only one video signal at a time comes into the house video switcher input. This is the cheapest way I have found to 'multiplex' several cameras... if you get my drift. kick butt fun ! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 12:37:23 -0700 From: KVictor@POBox.com Subject: : 1.0 : text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kvictor@pop.dnai.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:32:42 -0700 To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: Ken Victor Subject: unit names question if i change the name of a unit, will all references to that unit, eg, in scripts be automatically changed? if not, is there some "easy" way to find all references to a unit so that i can make all needed changes? same question, but with script names -- ie, if i change a script name... thanx, ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 12:38:21 -0700 From: KVictor@POBox.com Subject: : 1.0 : text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kvictor@pop.dnai.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:37:48 -0700 To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: Ken Victor Subject: feature request.... apparently the safest way to recover from a corrupted backup is to do an export, quit xtension, delete the data base file, start xtension without an existing data base file, thus creating a new empty one, and import the exported data.... given this, how about having an ability to generate exported files via scripting... how about an ability to detect the existance of an event by name... ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 13:17:02 -0700 From: joe Subject: Cute Turns to Security There was an attempted break in of our detached garage last night at about 1:30 AM. The household awoke to a screaming siren. The security system was installed by the previous owners of the house (not X10) and proved its worth by scaring off the theif. I knew it was the garage door that was opened but what really made us nervous was not knowing if there was anyone inside the garage. I didn't venture in, I left that honour to the Police who responded very quickly. Nobody was in there but it would have been nice to know before going in to check. What's been a cute automation hobby so far with an old Mac,a few lamp and appliance modules, and some light switches put together for simple lifestyle enjoyment quickly turns to a more serious security project after an event like last night. What I really like about XTension and X10 is the low cost way of adding motion detectors in the garage and around the house to bolster security and get feedback. I know there are some of you who have very elegant situations set up but up to now, around my place, home automation has been "Dad's" hobby that the other members of the household tolerate. There's a lot more home automation fans in the house tonight. Joe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ joe@gbgraphics.com http://www.gbgraphics.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 13:49:32 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Cute Turns to Security Hi Joe, Unfortunately, either a robbery or the threat of one remains the singular most important reason that folks get into home automation. I most heartily agree that one of the most valuable benefits of the home automation system is just as you say. Information! Is he still here? Where is he? How long did he stay? Where did he go? How did he enter? How did he leave? I have long professed that you should not try to do it all yourself, but rather you should augment your commercial burglar system with additional sensors and perhaps the ability to trigger the commercial system from events or logic that you put into XTension. I live far back in the trees, 1 1/2 miles from the nearest paved road, and at least 10 miles from any real 'town'. Not only have I been robbed, but I fear even more attempts. I can not imagine how I would feel if I lived in a subdivision. I think I would want to erect a security system similar to those laser beam systems I've seen at the government buildings in Washington DC...! But even the simplest motion sensors can tell you whether an intruder came and left (frightned by your siren), OR whether he's still there! I do wish that we could live in a world where we didn't have to worry so, but until then, my system provides me every day with nice messages that things are ok, and that bump in the night was nothing more than that... sorry about the intrusion, michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 1998 15:41:09 -0700 From: jprsha@IDT.NET Subject: Re: Live shots of the Pond - -->Couple this with the neat idea of controlling each camera - -->with a simple X-10 Appliance Module, and by turning on - -->only one camera at a time, I can drive the video signals - -->into a simple 'splitter' and only one video signal at - -->a time comes into the house video switcher input. I was just about to try that. I'm glad to see it works ok. Jerry - -------------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri ? U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/28/98 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:45:30 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Clever solution? by "Daryl Frelich" -> Re: Clever solution? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Clever solution? by "Daryl Frelich" -> Re: Clever solution? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Clever solution? by "Daryl Frelich" -> Re: Clever solution? by michael@shed.com -> "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by Ken Victor -> Re: Clever solution? by "Daryl Frelich" -> I cheat by michael@shed.com -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by michael@shed.com -> Script that makes XTention bomb by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by jprsha@IDT.NET -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Steve Fyfe -> Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour by john@netmac.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 11:43:49 -0700 From: "Daryl Frelich" Subject: Clever solution? Hi, Last night, I've attempted to do something that probably is unheard of. I stacked two X-10 module together in hope I can come up with something clever, but no success. Okay, here what I did... I plugged PowerFlash into lamp module in hope I can turn on and off the PowerFlash but that does not work. What I'm trying to do is to "stop" PowerFlash from flashing when I'm gone for the weekend or at work. My current set up: Phone line hooked up to Powerflash and set it to A1. Now for the rest of the house has 6 lamp modules set to A1. Ya see, the lamp module will flash in sync when the phone rings. (don't tell me to use computer to send on and off signals, computer has a few seconds delay when it comes to that). Here's what I was thinking. I have a keypad that I key in when I'm ready to go out out the door, the computer will send off command to lamp module (which powerflash is plugged into). Thus my whole house won't flash when I'm gone. Vice versa when I come home, all I need to do is to key in to have it turned on. Sounds logical? But that does not work for the way I want it to do. Help? Any clever solution? - --Daryl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 11:53:23 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Clever solution? Hi Darryl, Have you tried to use an Appliance Module instead of the Lamp Module? There is a big difference. What you describe should work, but NOT with a Lamp Module. The Lamp Module requires a 'load' of 40 watts or more before it will trigger at all... The PowerFlash does not 'draw' that much current... michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:13:30 -0700 From: "Daryl Frelich" Subject: Re: Clever solution? Ahh, I don't have it. Do you? What about receptable? - --Daryl >Hi Darryl, > >Have you tried to use an Appliance Module instead >of the Lamp Module? There is a big difference. > >What you describe should work, but NOT with a Lamp Module. >The Lamp Module requires a 'load' of 40 watts or more before >it will trigger at all... The PowerFlash does not 'draw' >that much current... > >michael > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:25:46 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Clever solution? HI Darryl, The PowerFlash has a 3-prong (grounded) plug. There are two different Appliance Modules. One is the AM486 which has a 2-prong socket The one you want is the AM466 which has a 3-Prong Socket. Although you could use a 3 prong to 2 prong adaptor, since you don't have one anyway, I suggest buying the one with the 3-Prong socket : AM466. This is available at your local Radio Shack as part number : 61-2684 ($13.99) Normally IN STOCK. Just make sure that the address of your Appliance Module is NOT the same as the PowerFlash ! :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:34:01 -0700 From: "Daryl Frelich" Subject: Re: Clever solution? Have you tested it? It'd be silly for me to trot over to Radio Shack which is about 15 miles away from my farm. And to find that it might not work. - --Daryl >HI Darryl, > >The PowerFlash has a 3-prong (grounded) plug. >There are two different Appliance Modules. >One is the AM486 which has a 2-prong socket >The one you want is the AM466 which has a 3-Prong >Socket. > >Although you could use a 3 prong to 2 prong adaptor, >since you don't have one anyway, I suggest buying >the one with the 3-Prong socket : AM466. > >This is available at your local Radio Shack as >part number : 61-2684 ($13.99) Normally IN STOCK. > >Just make sure that the address of your Appliance >Module is NOT the same as the PowerFlash ! :-) > >michael > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:44:52 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Clever solution? Hi Darryl, NO, I haven't tested such a configuration here. But I have used a similar configuration where I turned on one appliance module with another and thus had a 'double lock' on a certain appliance that I wanted to make sure COULDN'T come on unless I specifically sent TWO different ON commands. There is nothing wrong with either your logic ? or the idea that one X-10 APPLIANCE module can turn on any other X-10 module and allow it to subsequently be commanded by a X-10 command to a different address. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:53:31 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector thought i'd share this "tip"... i wanted to use a mas12 motion detector to detect when/if i got up in the middle of the night and when i got up in the morning after my alarm went off (of course handled by xtension). since i have skylights in my bedroom and usually sleep with the curtains open, the first thing i did the ms12 was pop its cover and tape over the dusk detector photocell. worked fine and i could get messages regardless of how light the room was. only problem was the ms12 was too sensitive for my needs and was detecting all my tossing and turning while sleeping in addition to when i'd get up out of bed. also it was detecting when i'd hit the snooze button (on the x10 controller) and confusing that with thinking i'd gotten up out of bed. i could not find a location (after some playing around) that would only detect the motion i wanted detected. i was started to think of how to set up sseveral detectors and then using logic i could determine if the appropriate number of detectors went off, and in the right sequence, then it would mean i was out of bed. but that would mean waiting several days for the detectors to arrive; not to mention the cost of several detectors and the "joy" of trying to place them appropriately. then it occurred to me: i took the cardboard tube from a used roll of toilet paper and taped it over the front of the ms12. that combined with proper placement and now it only detects when i get out of bed. final solution: time to tape and place: < 30 minutes; cost: less than a penny for the scotch tape!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 12:57:45 -0700 From: "Daryl Frelich" Subject: Re: Clever solution? Great. I'll go out and buy receptable. Thanks, - --Daryl >Hi Darryl, > >NO, I haven't tested such a configuration here. > >But I have used a similar configuration where I >turned on one appliance module with another and >thus had a 'double lock' on a certain appliance >that I wanted to make sure COULDN'T come on unless >I specifically sent TWO different ON commands. > >There is nothing wrong with either your logic ? >or the idea that one X-10 APPLIANCE module can >turn on any other X-10 module and allow it to subsequently >be commanded by a X-10 command to a different address. > >michael > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 13:03:12 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: I cheat Hi Folks, While I'm alone for a while, I'll tell you about this 'helper' I have... This carpenter has been around here for over 18 years, and is responsible for almost all of the construction and remodeling that's been done here. One of the things I've been doing is teaching him about X-10 and the other gadgets I have around here. Over the past two weeks, we've been putting up more cameras and motion sensors. He's done almost all of the installation. Two days ago, he got a wild hair and decided to use the high pressure sprayer to clean the sides of the house. Of course, he pulled the usual 'boner' and 'cleaned' one of the video cameras, which immediately died. So, I gave him a little lesson in the delicate nature of the electronics of the camera :-) Yesterday he build a wooden box to hold the camera which is down by the pond. Today, for the first time in a month, it rained....so while I'm watching the wonderful rain fall into the pond, the camera goes out... Tromping down to the pond, I find that he had drilled a hole in the top of the wooden box. Directly over the camera.. very carefully positioned over the only 'vent' I left in the body of the camera. Needless to say, there will be another little learning experience when he gets back... :-) This is the way I cheat. Without him around, I would live in an ivory tower and would have no idea just what kinds of 'interesting' things one can do to oneself... I've already learned what kind of things I do to myself, and it's hardly a learning experience when you repeat something for the umpteenth time... But of course, the carpenter is not as interesting as the Ukraine engineer that worked here for two years. Three AM in the morning he wakes me with the news that '...the soldering iron is vaporizing the solder !' He had never seen a commercial 'solder-sucker'...! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 13:14:28 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector Hi Ken, Simple solutions are the most gratifying ! I believe that Jerry reported that he had his placed on the top of his TV which would effectively block the 'view' of the MS12 while he was flat in bed, but would trigger when he sat up or got up... I REALLY love the Bik proximity sensor in my bed. It gets the light on in the bathroom faster than anything so far, and the lights are back off within two seconds after I lie back down ! But, it does cost a bit more than 30 cents...! michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 14:50:40 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Script that makes XTention bomb Michael, I have discovered a way to write a script that will make XTension bomb. I have a scheduled event that runs a script repeatedly. The script makes a test, and based on how the test comes out, it wants to remove the event. If I remove the event from within the script that is run from that event, then XTension bombs. I assume the logic in XTension is trying to reschedule the event and it is not aware that the script pulled the rug out from underneath. I resolved this issue by scheduling another event that removes the first event. It would be easier, though, if this extra step were not necessary. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 15:01:21 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Hi Steve, This is the second report today of this exact same failure. I have been trying to find an easy way to correct it, but the only way I can see is to Disallow it !? It is a logical conundrum. "This sentence is critical to the understanding of this paragraph. Remove the previous sentence." michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 15:33:04 -0700 From: jprsha@IDT.NET Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector - -->Hi Ken, - --> - -->Simple solutions are the most gratifying ! - --> - -->I believe that Jerry reported that he had his - -->placed on the top of his TV which would effectively - -->block the 'view' of the MS12 while he was flat in bed, - -->but would trigger when he sat up or got up... - --> - -->I REALLY love the Bik proximity sensor in my bed. - -->It gets the light on in the bathroom faster than - -->anything so far, and the lights are back off within - -->two seconds after I lie back down ! - --> - -->But, it does cost a bit more than 30 cents...! - --> - -->michael - --> - --> Yep.. that's what I did. It works until I actually sit up in bed. Then the lights go on. Jerry - -------------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri ? U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 18:54:38 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/28/98 6:06 PM >I have been trying to find an easy way to correct >it, but the only way I can see is to Disallow it !? I can suggest 2 possibilities Change the Remove Event code so it does not actually remove the event, but it just marks the event for later removal. Then find a place in the program's main event loop, where nothing that can conflict is in progress, when you can scan the list of events and do the removal. You will also need to add a check to the code that runs the events so it skips any event that is marked for removal. OR Modify the event code that runs scripts so that while the script is running, the code keeps track of the current event by name only. Once the script is done, the code then finds the event all over again using the name. If it is not found in the list of events, then you know the event is gone, if it is found then you continue with the code that is in there now. HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 1998 19:56:55 -0700 From: john@netmac.net Subject: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour Have a LynX-Port... Have 1.7.3 Xtension Have several light units dictated on a given Housecode... Can turn them all off using the "all Off" CMD remotely with the manual controler and Xtension responds accordingly my changing the status for all the lights on that house code. However.. If I command the housecode to do "All Lights On", the status of the units dictated in Xtension DOES NOT respond accordingly... Comments anyone... - -- ___________________________________________________ John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 System Administratior | john@netmac.net Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/29/98 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:45:41 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour by michael@shed.com -> Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> New Mac Virus by michael@shed.com -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Greg Satz -> Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb by Ken Victor -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by Andy Montag ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 05:51:06 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour John Eriksen said on 5/27/98 4:20 PM >However.. If I command the housecode >to do "All Lights On", the status of the units dictated in Xtension DOES >NOT respond accordingly... It works for me, but I am using a CM11. _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 06:01:48 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour Do you mean: 1. The lights don't respond correctly to the "all lights on", i.e., some of them don't turn on or 2. the icons in the master list don't show the proper status when the "all lights on" is used? If it's 1., then there's something about the X10 signaling strength that's screwy. I have seen occasions where a lamp can be turned off or dimmed once it's on, but not on once it's off; mostly from the use of 110VAC halogen lamps in downlights. If it's 2., then maybe Xtension just doesn't parse this command correctly. As I remember, there have been quite a few comments on the ability of Xtension to catch an "all lights on" command. I don't use this command myself, so I can't really say from experience. Phil >Have a LynX-Port... >Have 1.7.3 Xtension > >Have several light units dictated on a given Housecode... > >Can turn them all off using the "all Off" CMD remotely with the manual >controler and Xtension responds accordingly my changing the status for >all the lights on that house code. However.. If I command the housecode >to do "All Lights On", the status of the units dictated in Xtension DOES >NOT respond accordingly... > >Comments anyone... >-- >___________________________________________________ >John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 >System Administratior | john@netmac.net >Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net >Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net >___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 06:37:57 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour Phil Pedersen wrote: > >there have been quite a few comments on the ability of > Xtension to catch an "all lights on" command. Hi Folks, XTension will recognize an incoming "All Lights ..." type command and will change the appropriate units in the databas in response. It will not execute the scripts associated with them (they are all 'lights') The comments that have appeared in the past few months regard the ability to 'intercept' the command and do something 'user specific'...this is done with the Attachments script. You can probably find all of them in Matthew's search engine. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 06:57:56 -0700 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Lynx <=> Xtension behaviour Sorry for my misapprehension of the comments on "all lights on" stuff. As I said, I don't use them, so the memory was a little unclear on the gist of the comments (ah, the joys of getting older, but if you consider the alternativea) :^) Phil >Phil Pedersen wrote: >> >>there have been quite a few comments on the ability of >> Xtension to catch an "all lights on" command. > >Hi Folks, > >XTension will recognize an incoming "All Lights ..." type command >and will change the appropriate units in the databas in response. >It will not execute the scripts associated with them (they are >all 'lights') > >The comments that have appeared in the past few months regard >the ability to 'intercept' the command and do something 'user >specific'...this is done with the Attachments script. > >You can probably find all of them in Matthew's search engine. > >michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 07:56:08 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Steve Fyfe wrote: > I have discovered a way to write a script that will make XTension bomb. I > have a scheduled event that runs a script repeatedly. The script makes a > test, and based on how the test comes out, it wants to remove the event. > If I remove the event from within the script that is run from that event, > then XTension bombs. > > I assume the logic in XTension is trying to reschedule the event and it > is not aware that the script pulled the rug out from underneath. > > I resolved this issue by scheduling another event that removes the first > event. It would be easier, though, if this extra step were not necessary. Hi Folks, Regarding this new logical conundrum: I spent last evening discussing this with one of my oldest programming friends. Even tho he doesn't use XTension, he was able to posit even more cases where it would be possible to wrap XTension around the axle with its own scripts. I know you're not going to like this, but I'm going to have to resort to an old IBM trick of saying "Results are Unspecified" : If you try to remove a scheduled event from within a script that is kicked off by that same scheduled event, XTension will likely bomb. I promise to look into any formal published refutation of Godel's theorem, but I believe that any attempt to make XTension 'bulletproof' while allowing the complete verbal lexicon of AppleScript will result in a trip to the nut house. I will fix the code so that it doesn't bomb, and perhaps writes a red message announcing that this can't happen. I will also try to posit some good examples of just what not to do in this specific case, but I'm afraid that there are many other things that would break which can't be enumerated. I strongly suggest that whenever you create a system, you must test it completely before you trust it to wake you or let you back in your house... I have used the following logic for the past month, and it gets 'used' a lot. It has not failed me yet. It doesn't use the same technique, but it does show the use of the 'remove event' verb : michael - ------------------------------------------------- ON Script for the Bik proximity sensor in the bed: - --michael has just climbed into the bed - -- did we miss him getting up ? If not, kill the event created - -- when we thought he was getting up... if (status of "MF in bed") is false then remove event "MFup" end if - --now is michael going to bed or is he just up and down ? if (time delta of "MF in bed") is greater than 10 * minutes then block unit "AllRearAlarms" unblock unit "CMK201" turnoff "CML205" turnoff "CML203" write log "Michael's going to bed" remove event "KillToys" create event "KillToys" that executes unit "Kill the Toys" in 10 * minutes else --he's just up and down, probably want to kill the bathroom lights now turnoff "CML205" end if - -------------------------------------- OFF Script for the Bik proximity sensor in the bed: - --when michael gets out of the bed : - --if we're sure he Was in bed, we probably need turn on the bath light if (status of "MF in Bed") is true then turnon "CML205" end if - -- if michael is just in and out, we may need to shunt some events if (time delta of "MF in bed") is less than 10 * minutes then remove event "KillToys" end if - -- if he stays up for more than 10 minutes, he's alive remove event "MFup" create event "MFup" that executes unit "MF is alive" in 10 * minutes write log "Michael's up..." - ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 08:46:58 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: New Mac Virus Hi Folks, If you haven't heard, there is a new virus in the Mac world and it isn't funny. If you at all use Quicktime 2.0 or later, on a PPC (not 68K), then you should check this out: this one's nasty michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 09:50:33 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/29/98 11:02 AM >I know you're not going to like this, but I'm going to have to >resort to an old IBM trick of saying "Results are Unspecified" : > >If you try to remove a scheduled event from within a script that >is kicked off by that same scheduled event, XTension will likely bomb. [snip] >I believe that any attempt to make XTension 'bulletproof' while >allowing the complete verbal lexicon of AppleScript will result in >a trip to the nut house. > >I will fix the code so that it doesn't bomb, and perhaps writes >a red message announcing that this can't happen. You are right, I don't like it ;-) I don't know the code, so I have to take your word for it that it would end up with a trip to the nut house. But... this does not seem to be an insurmoutable problem to me, in the abstract. If this type of thing has not been factored into the design up to now, then I can see how it might be a major effort to add it. This is such a basic premiss of XTension - everything is run from a script. It's a shame that XTension lets itself get tripped up. This is just the kind of thing that will make XTension harder to use. I write a global script and run it from the scripts menu and it works fine. Much later, after I have forgotten how the script works, I decide to create a scheduled event that runs the script and now it does not work! (I know I am oversimplifying this, but the basic idea is there.) It is said that learning the quirks of a system is what takes the time when learning something new. This is one of those quirks that will trip people up. >I will also try to posit some good examples of just what not to do >in this specific case, but I'm afraid that there are many other >things that would break which can't be enumerated. That is kinda scary. Should I reconsider using XTension entirely??? Just kidding, but the point remains. >I have used the following logic for the past month, and it gets >'used' a lot. It has not failed me yet. It doesn't use the same >technique, but it does show the use of the 'remove event' verb : I don't see the relevance of this example. My 2 cents. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 10:10:32 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb I agree with Steve on this point. Making XTension have idiosyncrasies that scripting authors must know about/learn/discover takes away from the overall ease-of-use experience. If the XTension author (Michael) deals with this problem, it is fixed once. Otherwise every XTension user gets to deal with it. I can understand why Michael doesn't want to create data structures that X themselves but I believe it will be worthwhile in the end. Thanks, Greg Satz At 12:48 PM -0400 5/29/98, Steve Fyfe wrote: >Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/29/98 11:02 AM > >>I know you're not going to like this, but I'm going to have to >>resort to an old IBM trick of saying "Results are Unspecified" : >> >>If you try to remove a scheduled event from within a script that >>is kicked off by that same scheduled event, XTension will likely bomb. >[snip] >>I believe that any attempt to make XTension 'bulletproof' while >>allowing the complete verbal lexicon of AppleScript will result in >>a trip to the nut house. >> >>I will fix the code so that it doesn't bomb, and perhaps writes >>a red message announcing that this can't happen. >You are right, I don't like it ;-) > >I don't know the code, so I have to take your word for it that it would >end up with a trip to the nut house. But... this does not seem to be an >insurmoutable problem to me, in the abstract. If this type of thing has >not been factored into the design up to now, then I can see how it might >be a major effort to add it. > >This is such a basic premiss of XTension - everything is run from a >script. It's a shame that XTension lets itself get tripped up. > >This is just the kind of thing that will make XTension harder to use. I >write a global script and run it from the scripts menu and it works fine. >Much later, after I have forgotten how the script works, I decide to >create a scheduled event that runs the script and now it does not work! >(I know I am oversimplifying this, but the basic idea is there.) It is >said that learning the quirks of a system is what takes the time when >learning something new. This is one of those quirks that will trip people >up. > >>I will also try to posit some good examples of just what not to do >>in this specific case, but I'm afraid that there are many other >>things that would break which can't be enumerated. >That is kinda scary. Should I reconsider using XTension entirely??? > >Just kidding, but the point remains. > >>I have used the following logic for the past month, and it gets >>'used' a lot. It has not failed me yet. It doesn't use the same >>technique, but it does show the use of the 'remove event' verb : >I don't see the relevance of this example. > >My 2 cents. >Steve > >_____________________________________________________________ >Steve Fyfe >Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 >PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax >Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 11:19:21 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb MIchael, while your response and quote: >"This sentence is critical to the understanding >of this paragraph. Remove the previous sentence." while cute, is irrelevant, flippant, and annoying. i've heard it said that at large (software) organizations, each call from a customer about a problem/ bug probably represents about 100 other customers who didn't bother to take the time and effort to call or didn't recognize that they in fact had the same problem. the fact that two of your customers have identified the same failure (coincidentally on the same day!) says to me that you probably have other customers who are either trying or have tried something similar. they may not have been able to identify it to same degree that steve and i have, or just as likely, they may have identified it, and said: "oh well, just another short coming of xtension; i'll find some other way to do this." in the meantime, you have wasted their time in both tracking it down and determining an alternate approach -- please don't misunderstand this, this is not a personal attack and i don't mean that you have deliberately perpetrated bugs; simply put tho, you are the person responsible for xtension. as i said to you privately, i believe one of the consequences of this bug is memory trashing. as such, i believe it may be responsible for a number of reported, but not repeatable, other bugs/crashes/freezes, e.g., freeze crash while saving data base and even possibly the person who had clobbered fonts! (one of the "niceties" of the mac os without any memory protection is that errant programs can do real serious harm.) >I have been trying to find an easy way to correct >it, but the only way I can see is to Disallow it !? what do you mean by "Disallow it"? are you going to detect this and disallow the 'remove event' programmatically? if so, are you going to return an error as if the event did not exist so that scriptors can act accordingly in their 'on error' clauses? or if you don't return an error and act as if the remove succeeded then what happens later when a script fails because it trys to create an event with the same name? if you are going to disallow this by detecting it programmatically, then i would claim that with only a little more effort, you can solve the problem (see below). if not disallowing it by programmatic detection, are you simply going to tell users "don't do this"? if so, how are you going to tell them? in the manual? we all know how well manuals are read... are you going to put a warning and a "watermark" on every page saying "don't do this". or how about putting up a dialog warning every time xtension is launched? and are you willing to take responsibility for the user who read the manual but forgets something and stumbles into this situation? and the potential consequences for this user who may loose a day's time or whatever? are you going to reimburse these people? i don't think you want to be in this position... you might be inclined to say something like "a typical customer wont encounter this, and xtension has been running successfully for years without this being an issue". if you are tempted to say something like this, then in addition to referring you back to comments above about customer support, i would ask: "who is your typical customer?" is it your powerbook which has been running for months without a problem? or is it PAYING customers such as steve and me? take a quess as to which i think is the "right" answer... :-) if you are tempted to say that they are other ways to accomplish the same tasks, then while this is true, how much time must be wasted to (re)discover that a different approach must be used. and in most of these cases, the other approaches are less elegant -- and you have previously professed an appreciation for elegance... i beleive that removing an event from a script executing as part of that event is a valid thing to do. i mentioned (privately) yesterday that i have some scripts that i like execute either manually (from the scripts menu) and from other events/scripts. these script would first delete any events that would execute them in order to avoid duplicate execution. see my discussion below about my finicky garage door for another "valid" use with the use of recursion. note that i also believe that attempting to remove events in some cases is already a work around for other xtension deficiencies: namely events can not be manipulated (other than suspend/resume). thus if i want to change the time an event fires or the repeat cylce of an event, my only real and practical choice is to remove the event and (re)create it the way i want it to be. THIS IS A BUG! lets face it michael, this is a bug. whether you call it an implementation bug, a design flaw/oversight, or a deficiency in xtension's scripting language that allows the expression of such "illegal" constructs, it is a bug. "bite the bullet" and "JUST FIX IT". steve proposed 2 approaches for a fix and i'll propose here a 3rd (and similar) approach. wiithout knowing the actual implementation and architecture of xtension, i have no basis on how to judge the right or best approach. however, i can't imagine an architecture or implementation that would preclude the fixing of this bug! anyway, here's my proposal: assocaiate 2 additional boolean states (bits) with each event - one state to indicate whether or not the event is currently executing, and one state that indicates whether or not the event is deleted. both of these states are set to false when the event is created. when an event is triggered, change its state to indicate that it is active. when an event is completed, change its state back to inactive and if its state has been changed to indicate that it should be removed, then it can safely be removed at this time. change the remove event code to check the state of an event to see if its active or not -- if its not active, go ahead and remove as is done today; if its active, simply set the state to indicate its been removed and return normally as the event will be deleted later. change other necessary event managing routines to check for the should be removed state: eg, removing an event which has the set to be removed state already set should generate an error just as an attempt to remove a non-existant event would; attempting to create an event with the same name as an event set to be removed should not be an error. i have not used suspending and resuming events to know the proper behavior, but an attempt to manipulate an event that is set to be removed should respond the same way as attempting to manipulate a non-existant event. ok... thats the gist of what i wanted to say... please fix this.... :-) read on for a recursive use that attempted to remove an event... my garage door and opener combination are finicky in that sometimes it opens all the way and sometimes it doesn't; and similarily, sometimes it closes all the was and sometimes it doesn't. with my acquisition of xtension and one of the suggestions i believe i read on the web site, i decided to "attack" this problem and increase my security at the same time. i put the garage door opener on an applicance module named "Garage Door Enabled" in xtension. i used a universal module to be able to open/close the door, named "Open Garage Door". i used a power flash and a simple magnetic switch to detect if the door is closed or not, a receive only unit named "Garage Door Closed". note that when it works to open or close the door all the way, it takes about 15 seconds for a full opening/closing. my first scripting attempt was as follows -- note the script is a global script named "Secure Garage": if (status of "Garage Door Closed") is true then turn off "Garage Door Enabled" write log "Garage Secured" else if (status of "Garage Door Enabled") is false then turn on "Garage Door Enabled" end if turn on "Open Garage Door" create event "Secure Garage" that executes unit "Secure Garage" starts at Current Date + 17 end if in other words, check to see if the door is already closed and if so disable the opener; if the door isn't closed then make sure the opener is enabled, try to close by "pushing" the button" and wait 17 seconds and start over. the astute out there ( :-) ) would not have made the mistake i made!!! in the recursive situation, the "create event" fails because there is already a "Secure Garage" event. so my next try went as follows: if (status of "Garage Door Closed") is true then turn off "Garage Door Enabled" write log "Garage Secured" else if (status of "Garage Door Enabled") is false then turn on "Garage Door Enabled" end if turn on "Open Garage Door" try create event "Secure Garage" that executes unit "Secure Garage" starts at Current Date + 17 on error end try end if well, i thought i was getting someplace, because xtension no longer complained about trying to create an already existing event! unfortunately, while xtension was happy, i wan't because the script no longer does what it was supposed to do since it no longer really recurses! so now on to attempt 3: remove event "Secure Garage" if (status of "Garage Door Closed") is true then turn off "Garage Door Enabled" write log "Garage Secured" else if (status of "Garage Door Enabled") is false then turn on "Garage Door Enabled" end if turn on "Open Garage Door" try create event "Secure Garage" that executes unit "Secure Garage" starts at Current Date + 17 on error end try end if ok... now this worked or not based on whether the script had been invoked manually or via an event or thru some other script or whether this was the first call or a recursive call -- xtension might complain about an attempt to remove a non-existant event. on to attempt 4:] try remove event "Secure Garage" on error end try if (status of "Garage Door Closed") is true then turn off "Garage Door Enabled" write log "Garage Secured" else if (status of "Garage Door Enabled") is false then turn on "Garage Door Enabled" end if turn on "Open Garage Door" try create event "Secure Garage" that executes unit "Secure Garage" starts at Current Date + 17 on error end try end if finally, i got the logic right and xtension doesn't complain about trying to remove non-existant evnts or creating already existing events!!! but.... KABOOM now not ony may it crash xtension, it has potential for doing really bad things to the rest of my system!!! note: there are at least 2 ways that i've thought of to accomplish this and it is left as an exercise for the reader :-) however, none of the alternatives are as simple or elegant! if anyone would like to see my final (temporary) solution, email me privately or thru this list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 May 1998 19:27:02 -0700 From: Andy Montag Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector I also have been trying to focus an ms12a. In my case I'm trying to detect when someone is approaching the front door. After "blacking" the photocell, I mounted the ms12a on the wall beside the door about six feet off the ground, per the instruction sheet. With this setup that sucker went off for every car or truck that drove by on the road about 70 feet away! I've been attempting to tune the thing by placing strips of white tape over the various parts of the "lens" with limited success. Covering the top 2 rows of the lens puts a stop to the false alarms, but delays the trigger until someone is right at the door, or misses them completely if they are not right in front of it. I was hoping the tape thing would work better, as it's less obtrusive than Ken's toilet paper shotgun barrel approach. I'll probably try something like the tp tube before I resort to the redundant sensor trick though. Any body have any luck with taping the lens? Any more ms12a focusing tips? andy >Date: 28 May 1998 12:53:31 -0700 >From: Ken Victor >Subject: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector > >thought i'd share this "tip"... > >then it occurred to me: i took the cardboard tube from a used roll of >toilet paper and taped it over the front of the ms12. that combined with >proper placement and now it only detects when i get out of bed. > >final solution: time to tape and place: < 30 minutes; cost: less than a >penny for the scotch tape!!! > snip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/30/98 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:45:03 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb by rob@whidbey.com -> Gas valves etc. by rob@whidbey.com -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by "Chuck and Karen Coleman" -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by michael@shed.com -> Re: Gas valves etc. by michael@shed.com -> Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb by Greg Satz -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Steve Fyfe -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by michael@shed.com -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Darryl Tang -> Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector by Ken Victor -> Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Steve Fyfe -> Mailstorms explained by Sven U. Grenander -> still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Ken Victor -> Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by jprsha@IDT.NET -> Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Sven U. Grenander -> Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Detecting another Mac on a network by Sean McMains -> Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... by Jim Schram -> Re: Detecting another Mac on a network by Steve Fyfe -> Re: A small Applescript Heads Up by Chuck Rice -> Re: Detecting another Mac on a network by Greg Satz -> Re: A small Applescript Heads Up by Greg Satz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 05:24:17 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Hi Folks, > Steve Fyfe, et al wrote: > > > I have discovered a way to write a script that will make XTension bomb. I > > have a scheduled event that runs a script repeatedly. The script makes a > > test, and based on how the test comes out, it wants to remove the event. > > If I remove the event from within the script that is run from that event, > > then XTension bombs. Long post, short bottom line: For now, please resist creating scheduled events which have the same name as the script or unit that it is controlling. ......... Since yesterday evening, I have had a copy of XTension running which has the following script scheduled to run every 20 seconds : - ------- Global script called "TestBomb" -------- remove event "Bomber" create event "Bomber" that executes unit "TestBomb" in 20 #194# repeats every 20 - ------- It ran all nite while on the same machine I toyed with MPW, WORD, Timbuktu, and Acta. Of course there were all the other scheduled events and motion sensors etc. On another Mac, another script that was called "Bomber", did 'fail' in that the following will not result in an event named "Bomber" being scheduled. It will run only once...leaving no scheduled event. - -------- Global script called "Bomber" ------ remove event "Bomber" create event "Bomber" that executes unit #194# "Bomber" in 20 - ---------- As you can see, a bug in XTension is that it will work only if the name of the event is not the same as the name of the script that the event executes. This may indeed be the source of some of the problems we've heard of scheduled events that 'disappear'...? I went farther and created two scheduled events, one to keep the "Bomber" script going... Using ZoneRanger, I was able to see that indeed I am failing to release a 'handle' each time thru the "Bomber" script, and this is likely the reason for an eventual freeze, or the nasty message that you may have seen saying that XTension is out of memory. I am not saying that this is the answer to the problem in question, but it does smell like we're getting close. For now, I suggest that you do not create events which have the identical name of the (script or unit) that the event controls. in work michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 07:52:31 -0700 From: rob@whidbey.com Subject: Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb FWIW: I once worked on a DOS integrated software product (Framework from Ashton-Tate). It allowed data containers ("frames") to have attached scripts. If a script attempted to delete the frame which contained it, it would crash. Always. The developers, not exactly slouches, were adamant that this was not a bug. Nor a feature. Just a logical consequence of a silly operation. I dunno, is calling this a "bug" somewhat like calling your car buggy if it doesn't automatically disable the go pedal when it's pointed at a telephone pole. Just don't code dumb things and you'll be OK. Right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 07:56:54 -0700 From: rob@whidbey.com Subject: Gas valves etc. I have a fantasy of an automated homebrewing system. Temperature control is of course critical. Has anyone ever seen a source for a computer-controllable valve that could adjust the output of a typical propane burner? How about temp sensors that can be immersed in slightly corrosive liquids at boiling temperatures? And survive repeated sterilization? Anyone seen the review of National Instruments latest LabView package in the new MacWorld? Pricey, but a tinkerer's dream! I wonder if it's AppleScriptable? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 08:06:55 -0700 From: "Chuck and Karen Coleman" Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector There are problems with the ms12a. I have found that it is inconsistent, has a short range when required to send signals through walls, and will not go off if the subject is heading directly towards the sensor. Get the dm10. It works better outside and is also much more weather resistant. It can be made directional by tilting down the sensor (built in). I have never had it fail since I have installed it. I use it for ringing the doorbell also and after the sun sets I use it to do the lights also. Chuck and Karen Coleman coleman@teleport.com - ---------- From: Andy Montag To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector Date: Sat, May 30, 1998, 2:24 AM I also have been trying to focus an ms12a. In my case I'm trying to detect when someone is approaching the front door. After "blacking" the photocell, I mounted the ms12a on the wall beside the door about six feet off the ground, per the instruction sheet. With this setup that sucker went off for every car or truck that drove by on the road about 70 feet away! I've been attempting to tune the thing by placing strips of white tape over the various parts of the "lens" with limited success. Covering the top 2 rows of the lens puts a stop to the false alarms, but delays the trigger until someone is right at the door, or misses them completely if they are not right in front of it. I was hoping the tape thing would work better, as it's less obtrusive than Ken's toilet paper shotgun barrel approach. I'll probably try something like the tp tube before I resort to the redundant sensor trick though. Any body have any luck with taping the lens? Any more ms12a focusing tips? andy >Date: 28 May 1998 12:53:31 -0700 >From: Ken Victor >Subject: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector > >thought i'd share this "tip"... > >then it occurred to me: i took the cardboard tube from a used roll of >toilet paper and taped it over the front of the ms12. that combined with >proper placement and now it only detects when i get out of bed. > >final solution: time to tape and place: < 30 minutes; cost: less than a >penny for the scotch tape!!! > snip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 08:31:30 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector Hi Folks, I've found also that the MS12 is deficient in some ways, but it has caused me to play with different ways to use it. In the 'dodo' bird example, I found that the dodo would not trigger the MS12 when it 'dipped'. So, I turned the MS12 90 degrees and bingo, it triggers every time. Obviously it is preferential to hot bodies moving horizontally, more than vertically across its field of view. I believe that the DM10 is also more sensitive to the horizontal, but its much bigger lens is perhaps the reason why it's the better sensor...the PIRs inside are the same size. Another thing that I found was that when the MS12 is turned on its side like this, it has a very narrow field and can be used to catch a person just at a door rather than somewhere near the door. (aimed across the doorway, not directly at it.) This was an annoyance at first, because I wanted the sensor to detect only the 'dodo' and it would also detect someone going thru the sliding glass door which just happened to be in its view. I did a few tests, and found that in this position, about 7 feet from the door, it would catch someone only in a space about 1 foot across. Outside that range, it would not see anything. By using some logic, I was able to determine whether it was the 'dodo' or the doorway that was causing the trigger at any time. It certainly can be confused at times that the sun is shining directly on the dodo, but most of the day it performs nicely as another motion sensor that helps determine whether someone is coming in or leaving. Also, I've read that it is possible to make PIRs more sensitive in certain situations, by placing thin strips of cardboard or black tape vertically over every-other strip of its 'lenses'. It creates 'dead' fields, but it's supposed to be more responsive to just someone walking and not trying to defeat it. another quirky but 'tolerable' device :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 08:46:17 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Gas valves etc. Rob Lewis wrote: > > I have a fantasy of an automated homebrewing system. Temperature control > is of course critical. > > Has anyone ever seen a source for a computer-controllable valve that > could adjust the output of a typical propane burner? How Big is the operation? Does it have to be gas? I can see how the ADB I/O would be useful in this application. Very 'scriptable' from XTension. You could use perhaps a common furnace gas valve which may have 2 or 3 different 'settings' which are controlled by digital inputs (just switches). You could set the control to the level you needed using the digital outputs of the ADB I/O, and monitor the temperature with the analog inputs. Thus the Mac and XTension and the ADB I/O (and the gas controller), can all be put on a UPS ! > How about temp sensors that can be immersed in slightly corrosive > liquids at boiling temperatures? And survive repeated sterilization? Omega Engineering has the best? collection: > Anyone seen the review of National Instruments latest LabView package in > the new MacWorld? Pricey, but a tinkerer's dream! I wonder if it's > AppleScriptable? I really hope that it is. Previous versions weren't. Bummer. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 08:48:42 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... was: Script that makes XTention bomb I just want to say that Michael really cares about his product and ultimately will do the best thing for his customers and himself. Keep up the good work, Michael. Thanks, Greg Satz At 7:53 AM -0700 5/30/98, Rob Lewis wrote: >FWIW: > >I once worked on a DOS integrated software product (Framework from >Ashton-Tate). It allowed data containers ("frames") to have attached >scripts. If a script attempted to delete the frame which contained it, >it would crash. Always. The developers, not exactly slouches, were >adamant that this was not a bug. Nor a feature. Just a logical >consequence of a silly operation. > >I dunno, is calling this a "bug" somewhat like calling your car buggy if >it doesn't automatically disable the go pedal when it's pointed at a >telephone pole. > >Just don't code dumb things and you'll be OK. Right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 10:51:11 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/30/98 8:24 AM >For now, please resist creating scheduled events which have the same >name as the script or unit that it is controlling. I do this ALL the time, and I have been having many problems with XTension crashing lately along with events disappearing. I just changed all my event names so they are different. We'll see what happens. With fingers crossed.. _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 11:11:42 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Hi Greg, The latest update is that it looks like it is the 'create event' verb that is causing the memory leak....It's partner is the 'edit event' path, and whether you edit or create an event, whether manually or via script (no ken you can't edit via verb), then I am seeing the 'loss' of 6 handles... You can even manually do a 'new event' and then 'cancel' and the gobbler grabs 6 more... Obviously, if you are doing create events dynamically via scripts, over a period of time you would run out of memory. in work michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 11:51:08 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Hi Folks, Last update about the memory leaks in create/edit events: Proper description of the problem has led to discovery of the source of the leaks. They will be fixed in the next beta release of 1.7.4. If you are not doing dynamic 'create events' in your scripts, then this fix will not affect you. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 12:40:36 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb At 11:12 AM -0700 on 5/30/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > Obviously, if you are doing create events dynamically via > scripts, over a period of time you would run out of memory. Oh, my! Every morning a script creates some dozen and a half events, then every evening another script deletes them. Would you recommend restarting XTension, maybe twice a week or so, until the dutch boy gets his finger back into the memory dike? Thanks, - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 15:16:37 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Hi Scot, Gunsmoke Engineering wrote: > Would you recommend restarting XTension, maybe twice a week or > so, until the dutch boy gets his finger back into the memory > dike? Of course 'mileage varies with useage'....but you already have some idea of how long it can run without crashing. Just don't make something that is too much trouble to put in or take out. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 15:48:33 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb >Hi Scot, > >Gunsmoke Engineering wrote: > >> Would you recommend restarting XTension, maybe twice a week or >> so, until the dutch boy gets his finger back into the memory >> dike? > >Of course 'mileage varies with useage'....but you already have >some idea of how long it can run without crashing. > >Just don't make something that is too much trouble to put >in or take out. > >michael Michael, Do you suppose that this memory leak is the reason behind my crashes when XTension backs up automatically? _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com - -end message- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 16:46:17 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Re: "focusing" a ms12 motion detector the final placement of my "tp shotgunned" ms12a is mostly out of view and only about 18-24 inches off the ground. with respect to the appearance, when i started this it was an experiment and i anticipated either painting the tp tube or perhaps using sme pvc pipe. however, since the final placement is very un-obvious, i will probably leave it as it is! (lasyness, etc...) i was intially concerned about the instructions to place it 6 ft above ground. i guessing that this was to avoid false triggering due to ground effect currents... however, with the tp tube this doesn't seem to be a problem. ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 16:51:06 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/30/98 2:51 PM >Proper description of the problem has led to discovery >of the source of the leaks. Good news! Does what you found also explain any other problems that are not related to running out of memory? >They will be fixed in the next beta release of 1.7.4. I'm looking forward to it. >If you are not doing dynamic 'create events' in your >scripts, then this fix will not affect you. I am doing a create event in a script, and XTension crashes every time I delete the event from a script. This happens even if the script that does the delete is not run from the event that is being deleted. Hope the new beta will solve this one too. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 17:03:04 -0700 From: Sven U. Grenander Subject: Mailstorms explained Glenn at Qualcomm just confirmed my suspicion about how our mailstorms occurred the past few weeks. He not only confirmed that the problem was known, but he also told me that the problem is solved in version 2.1 of EIMS. The problem and explanation is too long to explain here, but I've posted my question and his answer at if you are interested in the gory details. I feel a lot better knowing that it is no longer a mystery that might reoccur without warning :-) - -Sven _____________________________________________________________________ Sven U. Grenander BeeHive Technologies, Inc. http://www.bzzzzzz.com - with a WebCam in Pasadena, California _____________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 17:06:23 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb michael, (note to all: i receive this list in its digest form. therefore if my concerns have been obsoleted by subsequent posts, please accept my apologies in advance.) with all due respect to one of your "oldest programming friends" - what does he know about the innards and specificis of xtension? what does he know about programming the mac? i am neither a philosopher, nor a linguist, nor do i claim to have a refutation of godel's theorem, nor i have seen any of xtension's source code... with that preface, i would claim that your current stance is extremely irresponsible. (and i don't say this lightly at all). no one is saying that it isn't possible to express something with xtension's scripting language that would "wrap XTension around the axle with its own scripts", nor has anyone asked you to "make XTension 'bulletproof' while allowing the complete verbal lexicon of AppleScript". we have here a very specific instance. you have been offered publicly at least 3 possible approaches to a solution. your only response has been that you may have to disallow this situation to arrise or you are going to say it that "Results are Unspecified". wasn't it you who said how happy we should be that xtension is not a microsoft product? sounds to me like we just got a microsoft type of answer (assuming they would have bothered to answer). you have not offered an iota of explanation as to why this specific bug is difficult to fix, nor what is wrong with any of the suggested approaches. all you have really said is that "its my ball and i'll make the rules as i see fit" and "i know more than you about the specifics and i say it can't be fixed and i'm not gonna tell you any of the specifics or the reason why so just trust me". i don't consider this an acceptable response. i don't really care if takes a week or two to fix this bug. xtension is not that big a program and i wouldn't think it could take too long to modify all code dealing with events. (in case you haven't figured it out by now, i'm rather upset and angry over this issue and your reaction. ) please michael, either fix this bug, or provide more information as to why it can't be fixed or why none of the proposed approached wont work... although it appears to me that there are a number of programmers on this list who would also like to see more, if you would rather take this to an offline discussion, that is fine by me. ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 17:41:54 -0700 From: jprsha@IDT.NET Subject: Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb - -->please michael, either fix this bug, or provide more information as to why - -->it can't be fixed or why none of the proposed approached wont work... - -->although it appears to me that there are a number of programmers on this - -->list who would also like to see more, if you would rather take this to an - -->offline discussion, that is fine by me. - --> - -->ken Personally, I'd prefer that you two keep this discussion public... Just so I know what type of person not to emulate. I've always heard the horror stories about jerks online but have never had the "opportunity" to experience one firsthand. Ken, Thank You for bringing me back to reality and renewing my cynical side towards people. Jerry - -------------------------------------- Jerry's Pond Page St. Louis, Missouri ? U.S.A. http://idt.net/~jprsha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 18:07:48 -0700 From: Sven U. Grenander Subject: Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Ok everyone, quietly go back to your desks and take out today's assignments :-) Every now and then we run into logical paradoxes and they are fun to explore; The village barber cuts the hair of everyone in the village, except those who cut their own ... he still doesn't know how his hair is going to get cut ! That's what Michael has run into. There are tons of similar problems in C++ coding having to do with memory leaks: Who is authorized to delete objects when object "owning" is circular ? In this case the object is a script that wants to delete itself, but what happens to the code that's executing the script when it deletes itself ? The problem can be solved (LISP and JAVA do it by having an outside monitor do garbage collection ... if nobody needs this object any more I'll delete it as it must be garbage) but it will take a bit of thinking in the XTension scripting domain. Keeping the user from invoking the paradoxical logic is the stopgap solution even if it is inelegant as a final solution. I can see why the humorous reference by Michael to the "delete the prior sentence" dilemma could have been taken as flippant, but it is in fact an interesting problem and the reference was only intended to illustrate that. So, let's get back to the exchange between colleagues while Michael whips his programmers (and logicians) some more. If Michael had been pulling a MSFT on you he would have bought your town and declared you a bug to be silenced ... Orkin, this way ... over there ... spray away ! This is a very civilized list and fun to monitor. No need to change that. - -Sven (stepping back into lurking mode :-) _____________________________________________________________________ Sven U. Grenander BeeHive Technologies, Inc. http://www.bzzzzzz.com - with a WebCam in Pasadena, California _____________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 18:44:39 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb At 5:06 PM -0700 on 5/30/98, Ken Victor wrote: >if you would rather take this to an offline discussion, that is >fine by me. Ken, if this bothers you as much as your posts indicate, perhaps the best idea is to take your concerns up with Michael off line. When you do, please remember that, while XTension is not freeware, Michael has stated several times on this list that proceeds from the sale of XTension fall far short of the expenses generated in marketing and maintaining it. In my book, that puts XTension squarely in the "Labor of Love" category, and it doesn't take many "debates" such as this one to push it into the "Pain in the Ass" category. Sure, XTension's not perfect. Sure, it doesn't do what you want in the way you want. Sure, there are work arounds, and the documentation is sketchy at best in describing them. Your points regarding XTension behaviour, possible bug fixes, etc, are all just as valid. But please don't kill the goose that's laying these mostly golden eggs. I for one find the hassle/benefit ratio on a par with X-10 technology in general, and much higher than most PC software. Lighten up and give Michael a break, OK? Just my $.02... - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 19:27:17 -0700 From: Sean McMains Subject: Detecting another Mac on a network Hi folks, I want my XTension machine to turn on a fan whenever my main computer is powered up. Up to now, I'd been using this code to tell whether it's on (more or less; the syntax may be wrong): - -- is the main computer on? try tell application "finder" of machine "The Monolith" get selection end tell return true on error return false end try The problem with this is that some programs (mostly games) either quit the finder or don't give it any processor time, which makes it appear that the computer's off when it's not. Does anyone have any idea how to query the main machine and get a "true" response even when the Finder isn't ready to return Apple events? Thanks for any help, Sean ============================================================================= Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 21:09:18 -0700 From: Jim Schram Subject: Re: Cute... but Irrelevant.... Ken, >>"This sentence is critical to the understanding >>of this paragraph. Remove the previous sentence." > >while cute, is irrelevant, flippant, and annoying. <240 flaming lines snipped> We all appreciate your enthusiasm for a bug-free XTension, but dude, you really need to lay off the caffeine, okay? We're worried about ya... - -- Jim ******************* NOTE ******************* There may be important message content contained in the following MIME Information. ******************************************** - ------------------ MIME Information follows ------------------ - --============_-1315534765==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<<<< See above "Message Body" >>>>>> - --============_-1315534765==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Ken, >>"This sentence is critical to the understanding >>of this paragraph. Remove the previous sentence." > >while cute, is irrelevant, flippant, and annoying. <<240 flaming lines snipped> We all appreciate your enthusiasm for a bug-free XTension, but dude, you really need to lay off the caffeine, okay? We're worried about ya... - -- Jim - --============_-1315534765==_ma============-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 21:13:43 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Detecting another Mac on a network Sean McMains said on 5/30/98 10:27 PM >on error > return false >end try > >The problem with this is that some programs (mostly games) either quit the >finder or don't give it any processor time, which makes it appear that the >computer's off when it's not. The full syntax of the "on error" clause includes an error number, something like this: on error number errNumber ... You might experiment and see what error is returned when the remote machine is turned off, and then only return false when that error number is returned. Any other error number would mean the finder is busy or out to lunch. HTH _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 21:29:15 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: A small Applescript Heads Up At 9:23 PM -0700 5/17/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > Hi John, > > As an aside, CTB.paul was written by Paul Ferguson > who is also the original author of XTension. (also my son) > > I have run into all sorts of cases where there is some > verb or event type collision. > > It may be that it would be much better to just change > the names and the event type and avoid some of these. > > Indeed I have such a problem right now, and you jogged > my memory that that may be by current bane. > > I'll look into what I can do to change the CTB.paul, > and if anyone has any suggestions regarding it, > now's the time to say... > > thanks > michael I am a bit behind in my email, so I hope I am not too late, but it would be nice if there was a way to return a list of the available serial ports. I use PortShare on my network, so I can use any serial port on any mac from any other mac. Since I have 5 or 6 macs on the network, I end up with 10 or so serial ports available. So the Mac physically connected to the weather station is not the same as the mac XTension is running on. Add FaceSpan to the mix, and I can create an application that can list the ports and allow me to select one, but only if I can retrieve a list of them. Now aren't you sorry you asked? :) -Chuck- __________________________________________________________________________ Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 21:37:35 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Detecting another Mac on a network One way would be to use a lower level protocol such as ICMP (ping) or Appletalk echos. You would need to find a scriptable app that lets you send and receive the above datagrams. I use OTTool but that doesn't support scripting. Greg Satz At 9:27 PM -0500 5/30/98, Sean McMains wrote: >Hi folks, > >I want my XTension machine to turn on a fan whenever my main computer is >powered up. Up to now, I'd been using this code to tell whether it's on >(more or less; the syntax may be wrong): > >-- is the main computer on? >try > tell application "finder" of machine "The Monolith" > get selection > end tell > return true >on error > return false >end try > >The problem with this is that some programs (mostly games) either quit the >finder or don't give it any processor time, which makes it appear that the >computer's off when it's not. > >Does anyone have any idea how to query the main machine and get a "true" >response even when the Finder isn't ready to return Apple events? > >Thanks for any help, > >Sean > >============================================================================= >Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be >http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 1998 21:44:12 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: A small Applescript Heads Up I had to stop running my Davis applescript. It kept running out of memory after running over a prolonged period of time. I haven't bothered to track it down yet. You may want to check for memory leaks in CTB.paul while you are there. Thanks, Greg Satz At 9:28 PM -0700 5/30/98, Chuck Rice wrote: >At 9:23 PM -0700 5/17/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > > >> Hi John, >> >> As an aside, CTB.paul was written by Paul Ferguson >> who is also the original author of XTension. (also my son) >> >> I have run into all sorts of cases where there is some >> verb or event type collision. >> >> It may be that it would be much better to just change >> the names and the event type and avoid some of these. >> >> Indeed I have such a problem right now, and you jogged >> my memory that that may be by current bane. >> >> I'll look into what I can do to change the CTB.paul, >> and if anyone has any suggestions regarding it, >> now's the time to say... >> >> thanks >> michael > >I am a bit behind in my email, so I hope I am not too late, but it would be >nice if there was a way to return a list of the available serial ports. I >use PortShare on my network, so I can use any serial port on any mac from >any other mac. Since I have 5 or 6 macs on the network, I end up with 10 or >so serial ports available. So the Mac physically connected to the weather >station is not the same as the mac XTension is running on. Add FaceSpan to >the mix, and I can create an application that can list the ports and allow >me to select one, but only if I can retrieve a list of them. > >Now aren't you sorry you asked? :) -Chuck- > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject. Subject: Digest for 5/31/98 Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:44:36 -0700 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> Re:Database backup crashing by michael@shed.com -> Re:Database backup crashing by Darryl Tang -> Latest 1.7.4 by michael@shed.com -> Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Ian -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Works great by Al Assid -> Re: Works great by john@netmac.net -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 by Sean McMains -> Latest 1.7.4 Features by michael@shed.com -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features by michael@shed.com -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 by michael@shed.com -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features by Gunsmoke Engineering -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features by Steve Fyfe -> Congratulations Re: Script that makes XTention bomb by Ken Victor -> for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) by Ken Victor -> Better 1.7.4 help by michael@shed.com -> Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features by michael@shed.com -> Re: for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) by michael@shed.com -> Re: for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) by Greg Satz -> Re: Better 1.7.4 help by Greg Satz -> Re: Better 1.7.4 help by michael@shed.com -> self-referential addenda by Ken Victor -> More Weather by Chuck Rice -> Re: More Weather by Chuck Rice -> Re: Better 1.7.4 help by Greg Satz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 04:15:33 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re:Database backup crashing Darryl Tang wrote: > Do you suppose that this memory leak is the reason behind > my crashes when XTension backs up automatically? Hello Darryl, There's nothing in the create script path that looks like it is related to the database backup directly, but it is possible that if you did a backup at a time when there was no memory left, it could cause a crash. I don't Think this is a related problem. I have had your system working here for two days, doing a backup every 15 minutes....As well, I have set my operational copies to do the same. No crashes yet. I still don't have a 'handle' on the crashes you have seen. (no pun intended) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 06:50:00 -0700 From: Darryl Tang Subject: Re:Database backup crashing >Darryl Tang wrote: > >> Do you suppose that this memory leak is the reason behind >> my crashes when XTension backs up automatically? > >Hello Darryl, > >There's nothing in the create script path that looks like >it is related to the database backup directly, but it is >possible that if you did a backup at a time when there >was no memory left, it could cause a crash. > >I don't Think this is a related problem. I have had your >system working here for two days, doing a backup every 15 >minutes....As well, I have set my operational copies to >do the same. No crashes yet. > >I still don't have a 'handle' on the crashes you have seen. >(no pun intended) >michael Thanks Michael. I experienced these crashes with both an SE (4 megs, System 7.5) and a Performa 475 (36 megs, Systems 7.6.1 and 8.1) with scheduled backups every hour. To remedy this situation, I put in an auto reboot script scheduled to run once per day on the Performa, which is online, and every eight hours on the SE, which I'm running offline for test purposes. I reduced the autobackups to every six hours. No freezes since. This arrangement is working fine. I set up an appliance module to turn off the external mac speakers before shutting down and turn them back on after restart to avoid a loud startup chime every morning. It reboots silently as a result. I'll keep you posted. _________________________________________________________ Yoshi's Franchise Corporation of America, Inc. http://www.yoshisonline.com - -end message- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 08:09:53 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Latest 1.7.4 Hi Folks, I have just posted a new version of the 1.7.4 beta. It has two changes which specifically relate to scheduled events. I think these are better now : 1. "create event" verb - memory leak fixed. 2. Manual create/edit events - memory leak fixed. These new files are on the site at : CM11 : LynX : TwoWay : Those who have been having trouble with the dynamic creation of scheduled events using the 'create event' verb may find that this cures some of your 'out of memory' problems and/or 'freezes'. with high hopes michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 08:15:41 -0700 From: Ian Subject: Re: still unaceptable -- was: Re: Script that makes XTention bomb >-->please michael, either fix this bug, or provide more information as to >why >-->it can't be fixed or why none of the proposed approached wont work... >-->although it appears to me that there are a number of programmers on this >-->list who would also like to see more, if you would rather take this to an >-->offline discussion, that is fine by me. >--> >-->ken > > Personally, I'd prefer that you two keep this discussion public... Just >so I know what type of person not to emulate. I've always heard the horror >stories about jerks online but have never had the "opportunity" to >experience one firsthand. > Ken, Thank You for bringing me back to reality and renewing my cynical >side towards people. > >Jerry Here, here !! Ian in Cloyne ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 08:39:51 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 At 8:09 AM -0700 on 5/31/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > I have just posted a new version of the 1.7.4 beta. Thanks for your continuing support of XTension, Michael. I don't know of many Mac applications where users can request a bug fix and see a change in less than a week! Seems like this is the third or so 1.7.4, and I've lost track of what other improvements/fixes might be in this version. Is there a doc somewhere, or a web page, that describes what's "new" in 1.7.4? The scheduled event memory leak is my main motivation for installing this 1.7.4 (I'm still using 1.7.3 on the XTension mac), and I'd like to know what else to expect in the bargain. TIA, - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 09:17:21 -0700 From: Al Assid Subject: Works great Well guys I have quite an extensive system as Michael knows and I'm not having any problems. I'm still using 7.3 and OS8.1 on a 7100 networked to a color classic handling the weather station. I think maybe the biggest bug Michael has to fix is giving everyone such easy access to himself, try and get Bill Gates to complain about his products and while your at it call X-10 and bitch about the problems there products cause, which are the roots of the ones XTension has to work around. Lets face it, the whole computer industry is producing at best what I call tolerable technology, there's no other industry that could produce a product as unreliable as PCs and not get litigated out of business. Just my opinion. I may be wrong. Get a Lynx-10 Get along Get a life Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 09:49:35 -0700 From: john@netmac.net Subject: Re: Works great I aggree with Al... By and large, Xtension is the very item we have always needed. I have no complaints, and I don't attempt to script the really weird / stupid... and it NEVER CRASHES FOR ME!!! The only "wish list" list items.. is a bit more support in the views for things like larger graphic items such as custom one click buttons / areas that change dynamically It also would be cool just being able to post text data to the view. I sure these and many other things are in the near future. in short... THIS WILL WORK! GIVE ME MORE! I LIKE IT! - -- ___________________________________________________ John David Eriksen | 1-813-360-3408 System Administratior | john@netmac.net Macintosh System Engineer | info@netmac.net Suncoast Network Services | hostmaster@netmac.net ___________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 09:50:32 -0700 From: Sean McMains Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 >Seems like this is the third or so 1.7.4, and I've lost track of >what other improvements/fixes might be in this version. Is >there a doc somewhere, or a web page, that describes what's >"new" in 1.7.4? On that note, would it be possible to attach beta numbers to your non-release revisions? For example, this would be something like 1.7.4b5 now. I think it would make these discussions a lot less ambiguous, and your troubleshooting easier! Thanks! Sean McMains ============================================================================= Sean McMains (sean@techconsulting.com) | Mail sent to this address may be http://www.techconsulting.com/sean/ | published at my discretion. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message may be PGP-signed. http://www.pgp.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 09:55:47 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Latest 1.7.4 Features Hi Folks, Here's a list of the new surprises to find in version 1.7.4 BETA 1. Totally new sunrise/sunset calculation. This should correct the bad suntimes seen by those who are either very far to the East or West of GMT. 2. New verbs to specifically offset the sunrise and sunset times by +/- 90 minutes. (adjust sunrise by/ sunset by) 3. New "Hide Window" verb which mates with the "Front Window" verb to selectively bring windows to front, and send them away. 4. 'Corrected' the behavior of the "future value" variable. 5. Created the 'sunrise' and 'sunset' variables which contain the sunrise and sunset times in seconds since midnight. 6. Added new variable "target name" which contains the string value of the current 'target' copy of XTension, OR Null. 7. Added new "all of list..." verb which returns a list of the names of all units which are members of a 'list', such as 'verbs' : returns the name of all XTension 'verbs' 'globals' : returns names of all Global Scripts 'groups' : returns names of all Groups 8. Added new "unit type" verb which returns a list of all units which are of a specified type: "all, real, dimmable, analog, discrete" 9. Added new "all of group" verb which returns a list of all of the units which are members of a specified 'Group'. 10.New verb "add unit xx to group yy" which adds a named unit to a named 'Group'. 11.New verb "remove unit xx from group yy" which does just that. 12.Fixed memory leaks in scheduled events functions, both manual operations and script driven events. PS: there may be some I've forgotten, and there will likely be more before this version is released.... :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 10:01:51 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features One more little thing in 1.7.4 : The XTension control panel has been changed so that it will now display the last timestamp for a selected Unit : This is a bit clumsy yet. The way it works is that you select a unit in a List or View, and the next time the control panel times 'update' for any reason, the last time stamp for the selected unit is displayed in the "Last Event" slot. Note that stale data can exist in some infrequently used units, and the values displayed may not make any sense. This is still in work...and there are yet things to be done. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 10:51:05 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 Sean McMains wrote: > On that note, would it be possible to attach beta numbers to your non-release revisions? For example, this would be something like 1.7.4b5 now. I think it would make these discussions a lot less ambiguous, and your troubleshooting easier! I'm a codfish. I hate making changes to things which require that I change resources and labels etc. I'll try to be more organized... michael short story: For 5 years at KSC, I always finished off the semi-annual self-evaluation Personnel forms with : "I will strive to become a more orderly worker" On the last one I wrote: "I have given up hope of becoming an orderly worker" :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 12:32:58 -0700 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features Thanks! If this file were included in the XTension distribution archive, you'd probably save yourself some questions... Scot Marburger At 9:55 AM -0700 on 5/31/98, michael@shed.com wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Here's a list of the new surprises to find in version 1.7.4 BETA > > 1. Totally new sunrise/sunset calculation. This should > correct the bad suntimes seen by those who are either > very far to the East or West of GMT. > > 2. New verbs to specifically offset the sunrise and sunset > times by +/- 90 minutes. (adjust sunrise by/ sunset by) > > 3. New "Hide Window" verb which mates with the "Front Window" > verb to selectively bring windows to front, and send > them away. > > 4. 'Corrected' the behavior of the "future value" variable. > > 5. Created the 'sunrise' and 'sunset' variables which contain > the sunrise and sunset times in seconds since midnight. > > 6. Added new variable "target name" which contains the string > value of the current 'target' copy of XTension, OR Null. > > 7. Added new "all of list..." verb which returns a list of the > names of all units which are members of a 'list', such as > 'verbs' : returns the name of all XTension 'verbs' > 'globals' : returns names of all Global Scripts > 'groups' : returns names of all Groups > > 8. Added new "unit type" verb which returns a list of all > units which are of a specified type: "all, real, dimmable, > analog, discrete" > > 9. Added new "all of group" verb which returns a list of all > of the units which are members of a specified 'Group'. > > 10.New verb "add unit xx to group yy" which adds a named unit > to a named 'Group'. > > 11.New verb "remove unit xx from group yy" which does just that. > > 12.Fixed memory leaks in scheduled events functions, both > manual operations and script driven events. > > PS: there may be some I've forgotten, and there will likely > be more before this version is released.... :-) > michael - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist and Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 12:54:49 -0700 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features Sand Hill Engineering said on 5/31/98 12:55 PM >2. New verbs to specifically offset the sunrise and sunset > times by +/- 90 minutes. (adjust sunrise by/ sunset by) Is this adjustment stored in the preferences or in the database so I only have to specify the adjustment once? Or do I have to specify the adjustment each time the program starts or every day? What is the recommended way to use these verbs? Startup script? Typed directly into the command line window? >12.Fixed memory leaks in scheduled events functions, both > manual operations and script driven events. Apparently, this fixed more than just a memory leak. This morning with 1.7.3, one of my scripts that has a Remove Event verb was crashing every time it ran. There should have been plenty of memory available then, so the crash must have been something other than a leak. With 1.7.4, I ran the script successfully once, so far. I'm keeping an eye on it to be sure that no problems crop up after some time passes, but it is looking good so far. Does this version support deleting an event from the script that the event runs? Is there still a problem with event names that are the same as a script or unit? >PS: there may be some I've forgotten, and there will likely > be more before this version is released.... :-) I know you are calling this a Beta, but is there any known reason why I should not use this version for "production"? By the way, when I installed this 1.7.4 it calculated my sunrise time as 246 o'clock. I had to delete the XTension preferences file again to fix that. I'm sure it will help most people if XTension gets smart enough to notice if the preferences file is wrong and adapt accordingly. Looks like this one is a winner - keep up the good work, Michael. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 13:21:59 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: Congratulations Re: Script that makes XTention bomb Michael, congratulations on finding your memory leak. and thanx also for providing a little more technical info than normal. its fairly easy for those who aren't interested to gloss over it, while those who are interested can't read what isn't there :-) i am very glad to see that you have placed self-referential excuses aside and are working on finding and fixing the bugs. (note had you told me this in the beginning, you might have saved me, and perhaps some others, some grief. i do not know you well enough to know that when you say that you are going to "Diasallow" something and that if you do this you will get "Results are unspecified" that you really mean that you are working are fixing it.) in the postings i've seen, you haven't yet answered the questions as to whether or not you believe the detected leak is responsible for the problems associated with a global script deleting an event with the same name. i assume that you are still exploring this. i would like to avoid the hassle of having to go through all my scripts and find work arounds for removing events and/or renaming events. i anxiously await final and definitive instructions from you. (warning - this paragraph is technical - skip if uninterested. your test sequence in which you remove an event (lets call it event A) in a script executed by that event and then create a new event (event B) may not demonstrate a potential bug. ie, if events are allocated from a stack, when event A is removed any pointers you have left to event A are now invalid. however, when you create event B, your old pointers to event A while logically still invalid, may in fact be pointing to a valid event -- event B, even tho you think they are pointing to event A. as usual, i have no idea if this is the situation within xtension, but am simply offering some of the results of my own hard burned experience. end technical stuff) ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 13:22:45 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) Jerry, your welcome. and thank you as well. its always nice and useful to know that someone's unwillingness to accept bugs and meaningless excuses and a request for information is someone else's definition of a jerk and a excuse to initiate name calling. ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 13:24:58 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Better 1.7.4 help Hi Folks, I have put this all together, and will soon make it a part of the 1.7.4 download : FIRST: TWO things that must be tended to : 1. IF you are using MacOS 8.0 or 8.1 : Please choose Chicago as the default Font in the Appearance Manager...just some small weirdness in spacing 2. PLEASE throw away your old XTension Prefs file which is in the System Folder:Preferences: folder. If you do not do this, you will have weird times for the sunrise/sunset. (Make sure you do this while XTension is not running) Here's a list of the new surprises to find in version 1.7.4 BETA 1. Totally new sunrise/sunset calculation. This should correct the bad suntimes seen by those who are either very far to the East or West of GMT. 2. New verbs to specifically offset the sunrise and sunset times by +/- 90 minutes. (adjust sunrise by/ sunset by) (This needs to be done only once, it is saved in the Prefs) 3. New "Hide Window" verb which mates with the "Front Window" verb to selectively bring windows to front, and send them away. 4. 'Corrected' the behavior of the "future value" variable. 5. Created the 'sunrise' and 'sunset' variables which contain the sunrise and sunset times in seconds since midnight. 6. Added new variable "target name" which contains the string value of the current 'target' copy of XTension, OR Null. 7. Added new "all of list..." verb which returns a list of the names of all units which are members of a 'list', such as 'verbs' : returns the name of all XTension 'verbs' 'globals' : returns names of all Global Scripts 'groups' : returns names of all Groups 8. Added new "unit type" verb which returns a list of all units which are of a specified type: "all, real, dimmable, analog, discrete" 9. Added new "all of group" verb which returns a list of all of the units which are members of a specified 'Group'. 10.New verb "add unit xx to group yy" which adds a named unit to a named 'Group'. 11.New verb "remove unit xx from group yy" which does just that. 12.Fixed memory leaks in scheduled events functions, both manual operations and script driven events. PS: there may be some I've forgotten, and there will likely be more before this version is released.... :-) michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 13:53:09 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Latest 1.7.4 Features Hi Steve, In response to your questions: The suntime offsets need only be set once. You can use the Command Line to do this IF you need to do it at all. If you want to experiment, do remember that doing a : "adjust sunrise by 0" and "adjust sunset by 0" will put everything back to 'normal'. PS: this offset will not take effect until 'tomorrow' OR after restarting XTension. Regarding deleting an event which has the same Name as the script that it is executing : The following script will not eat memory, but it still will not yield the desired intent: It will run only once. - --------- Global Script called "Bomber" ---------- remove event "Bomber" create event "Bomber" that executes unit "Bomber" in 10 - ------------------------- However, IF the event and the script have different names, there is no problem. Regarding the stability of this new version: Technically it has less than 12 hours of run time on it... But with the exception of the memory leak fixes, it has been running 'live' here for about 6 weeks. But I cannot stand on my hind legs and tell you that you should 'go live' with it...try it, but Watch It. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 14:09:08 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) Ken, If you meant this for Jerry, then send it privately to Jerry and keep it off this list. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 14:20:23 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: for Jerry (jprsha@IDT.NET) Please take this off line. We all don't need to read this. Thanks. Greg Satz At 1:22 PM -0700 5/31/98, Ken Victor wrote: >Jerry, >your welcome. > >and thank you as well. its always nice and useful to know that someone's >unwillingness to accept bugs and meaningless excuses and a request for >information is someone else's definition of a jerk and a excuse to initiate >name calling. > >ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 14:26:09 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Better 1.7.4 help Thanks for the bug fix update. I am running 1.7.4 now under 7.1 as my production system. Sunrise and Sunset are still one hour off. For MDT it is reporting 4:51 am SR and 8:02 pm SS. This is roughly one hour under 6:00 am and 9:00 pm that it should be. Now 7.1 has a date/time control panel that lets you set the date and time. There is also the map CP that lets you set time zone and lat/long. I don't know how to set DST under 7.1. That would appear to be the problem and would account for XTension being off one hour. So why is XTension off one hour. Thanks, Greg Satz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 14:43:40 -0700 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Better 1.7.4 help HI Greg, Although the new systems have such a flag, it makes more sense to say that it is XTension (the suntimes algorithm) that is generating the proper suntimes, and that the concept of "Daylight Savings Time" is a social thing. If you just subtract one hour from the Map (GMT offset), everything works right. In later OS versions there is this DST flag and I will have to ultimately use it in the calculations. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 14:58:16 -0700 From: Ken Victor Subject: self-referential addenda why i believe this was never a self-referential issue... from a user's perspective (which is the only perspective available to me since i don't have access to the source code, however, i would strongly suspect that the code implements a similar model) the model of scripts and events is not a containee/container model. ie, an event does not contain a script. rather, an event does contain a reference or a pointer to a script. contrast this with the user model of units and scripts. a unit can contain both an on script and an off script. thus if a unit's on or off script were to somehow delete the unit itself, then we would have a self-referential problem. also, if a global script were to delete itself, we would have a self-referential problem. scripts and events are contained by the application, and each can contain references to the other and to other global items as well. thus, in the absence of bugs, it really should not be a problem for a script to delete the event which references it. ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 16:57:52 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: More Weather If you want to get into a inexpensive weather monitoring system, and you can build it yourself, you might want to keep a watch on It is not complete yet, but it looks very interesting. -Chuck- __________________________________________________________________________ Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 17:04:38 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: More Weather At 4:57 PM -0700 5/31/98, Chuck Rice wrote: > If you want to get into a inexpensive weather monitoring system, and you > can build it yourself, you might want to keep a watch on > It is not complete > yet, but it looks very interesting. -Chuck- Sorry, I cut off the L on the end of the URL. It should be: __________________________________________________________________________ Chuck Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 1998 18:28:12 -0700 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Better 1.7.4 help That is what I was doing before I went to 1.7.4. I never did like DST but then I am not in a position to benefit from it either. Thanks for the clarification. Greg Satz At 5:43 PM -0400 5/31/98, michael@shed.com wrote: >HI Greg, > >Although the new systems have such a flag, it makes more >sense to say that it is XTension (the suntimes algorithm) >that is generating the proper suntimes, and that the >concept of "Daylight Savings Time" is a social thing. > >If you just subtract one hour from the Map (GMT offset), >everything works right. In later OS versions there is >this DST flag and I will have to ultimately use it in >the calculations. > >michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject.