Subject: Digest for 1/18/99 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:45:37 -0800 From: "XTension Discussion" To: "XTension Discussion" -> XTension Incompatibilities? by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Network upgrade advice by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Dell Laptop Power Supply - X10 Killer by john.brumleve@kzf.com -> Re: Dell Laptop Power Supply - X10 Killer by Thomas Arman -> Re: XTension Incompatibilities? by Steve Fyfe -> Re: XTension Incompatibilities? by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Network upgrade advice by scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) -> Re: XTension Incompatibilities? by michael@shed.com -> UPS X10 Blocking by scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) -> Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) -> Re: UPS X10 Blocking by Thomas Arman -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by matthew mcglynn -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by Chad A Gard -> Re: A Plead for Courtesy by petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by michael@shed.com -> Re: UPS X10 Blocking by "Chuck and Karen Coleman" -> Re: A Plea for Courtesy by michael@shed.com -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by jreeves@aimnet.com -> Re: UPS X10 Blocking by michael@shed.com -> Re: Network upgrade advice by Clark Martin -> Re: A Plead for Courtesy by Chad A Gard -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by Robb Cutler -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by Mark Hartman -> Re: UPS X10 Blocking by Greg Satz -> Re: Network upgrade advice by Greg Satz -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by michael@shed.com -> Re: UPS X10 Blocking by Phil Pedersen -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by john.brumleve@kzf.com -> Error-No Error by hvaneeden@worldnet.att.net -> Speaking Data? by Jeff Click -> Re: Speaking Data? by michael@shed.com -> Re: Network upgrade advice by Michael Holtzman -> Re: Network upgrade advice by Michael Holtzman -> Re: Error-No Error by Steve Fyfe -> Re: New name for XTension by strader@andrew.cmu.edu -> Re: Error-No Error by hvaneeden@worldnet.att.net -> Re: Speaking Data? by Steve Fyfe -> X-10 & mac energy usage by strader@andrew.cmu.edu -> Can my Mac talk to me on the phone? by Andy Montag -> Mystery "Icon" Script by Burk Roberts -> Re: Mystery "Icon" Script by matthew mcglynn -> Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) by Gunsmoke Engineering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 03:56:14 -0800 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: XTension Incompatibilities? Hi Michael and all, My XTension system has been down for 20 hours this week end. When loading, XTension was consistently freezing at the "initializing windows". It tooks me a lot time and efforts to discover that the culprit was the KeyQuencer control Panel. I repeated to remove and put it back in the Control Panel folder, and definitely 'KeyQuencer Panel' IS INCOMPATIBLE with XTension. Has anybody experienced this? Or could somebody try to confirm this incompatibility? Has anybody discovered other incompatibilities? And Michael, could you start a list of "Known incompatibilities" as one can find in most softwares (including sharewares)? This list could be included in the Manual, and could be elsewhere temporarily for "preliminary reports on incompatibilities to be confirmed". And if XTension users get into the habit of completing this list, we could all save a lot of time and trouble. Daniel Petitgrand - ----------------- Tested with: Mac IIci 40 Mo OS 7.5 XTension 2.0.5 KeyQuencer Panel V 2.0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 06:40:17 -0800 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice At 3:49 PM -0500 1/15/99, Steve Fyfe wrote: > Phil Pedersen said on 1/15/1999 11:29 AM > >>For the Internet gateway, I've been looking at two possibilities. >> >>1. A Mac running IP gateway software that allows multiple homing. >>This would require a PPC and 1 or 2 Ethernet ports. > > Why a PPC and not a 68K? Why 2 ethernet ports? Is not one enough? Open Transport doesn't run on some 68K machines (I don't remember what ones; I know it doesn't run on my Mac II) IPNetRouter requires OT. There are a couple of things here. I talked about using DSL in my original message, which gives you a full time 10Bt connection to your ISP. The DSL modem is on all the time and doesn't require dial-up. For this situation, you'd require 2 ethernet ports; one for the DSL connection, and one for your private network behind the router/firewall. If you're going to use a 56K modem as the ISP connection, then only one ethernet port is required. You'll still have a IP address assigned by the ISP and a private network on the other side. > >>2. A cheap PC running Linux. Linux has the services built in >>and is a firewall as well. > > Why not one of the Linux systems that run on Mac hardware? > > Why not a separate router in place of a computer doing the routing? > > I am considering adding similar functions to my system, so I'm interested > in your thoughts. > I've only started to look at Linux on a Mac (no spares ones around). I'm sure a 6100 or something of that power would be adequate for this. I know that the PC version works. A separate router is pretty pricey. The Netopia routers start at around $600, and Cisco router/firewalls get really expensive. They start at $500 + software and go up from there. A cheap PC or Mac and Linux would seem a more cost-effective solution for most house networks. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 06:40:46 -0800 From: john.brumleve@kzf.com Subject: Re: Dell Laptop Power Supply - X10 Killer > I have never found computers, TV's or stereos to be a problem. But that > doesn't mean that could be a problem. Hi Chuck, Unfortunately, those were my nemeses. :-( The Sony TV's, The X10 Security System console, and the power supply to one of my IIci's (in descending order) were the worst "signal suckers" in my house. My system reliability was hosed until I installed the filter/blockers on those devices. Regards, John - ----------------------------------------------- john.brumleve@kzf.com "As a matter of fact, it's ALL rocket science." - ----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 06:57:58 -0800 From: Thomas Arman Subject: Re: Dell Laptop Power Supply - X10 Killer FYI, I found that plugging my power supplies into my UPS, shielded the power mains from their "sucking" effects. Tom At 09:44 AM 1/18/99 -0500, John Brumleve wrote: > >> I have never found computers, TV's or stereos to be a problem. But that >> doesn't mean that could be a problem. > >Hi Chuck, > >Unfortunately, those were my nemeses. :-( > >The Sony TV's, The X10 Security System console, and the power supply >to one of my IIci's (in descending order) were the worst "signal >suckers" in my house. My system reliability was hosed until I >installed the filter/blockers on those devices. > >Regards, >John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:02:48 -0800 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: XTension Incompatibilities? Petitgrand said on 1/18/99 6:55 AM > I repeated to remove and put it back in the Control Panel folder, and >definitely 'KeyQuencer Panel' IS INCOMPATIBLE with XTension. > >Has anybody experienced this? I use KQ without any problems. I have KQ installed on all 3 of my machines. I run XTension on a Classic II with Sys 7.5.5. I also use the other 2 machines to run XTension in monitor mode for short periods of time. Both of those run OS 8.1. > And Michael, could you start a list of "Known incompatibilities" as one >can find in most softwares (including sharewares)? > This list could be included in the Manual, and could be elsewhere >temporarily for "preliminary reports on incompatibilities to be confirmed". I would rather that Michael find the reason for the incompatibility, and fix it if possible. In many cases it can be simple to solve the problem once the details are known. Perhaps Michael could maintain a list of those incompatibilities that he knows of and cannot resolve. There could also be a list of suspicious candidates. > And if XTension users get into the habit of completing this list, we could >all save a lot of time and trouble. This sounds like a great idea, but the problem is that an item can easily get listed when there is no real problem. Perhaps the trouble the original person was having was really due to a corrupted disk or some other situation that made it look like the listed item was incompatible. Your case is a perfect example. I'm sure you are correct that KQ causes a problem on your system, but it does not on mine. I would prefer that items not get added to the list until more than one person confirms the problem. >Mac IIci 40 Mo >OS 7.5 >XTension 2.0.5 >KeyQuencer Panel V 2.0 My Classic II is a similar machine - 68030, OS 7.5.5, XTension 2.0.7 and KQ version 2.5. Perhaps you should upgrade your OS or KQ? Have you run a disk utility and checked for corruption in the KQ control panel and in XTension? Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:31:04 -0800 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: XTension Incompatibilities? Steve Fyfe wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:02:52 -0500: >I use KQ without any problems. >I run XTension on a Classic II ...similar machine - 68030, OS 7.5.5, XTension 2.0.7 >Perhaps you should upgrade your OS or KQ? Right I shall first replace myKQ panel, then upgrade it. Thanks. >Perhaps Michael could maintain a list of those incompatibilities that he >knows of and cannot resolve. There could also be a list of suspicious >candidates. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:35:48 -0800 From: scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice Using a 486/66 PC running Red Hat Linux as a firewall/router, and cost was $0. A buddy gave me the PC and two ethernet cards, and Linux was a free download. The box has neither keyboard or monitor attached; maintenance (if there is any) is done via telnet. We set it up in November, and its been working fine ever since. Kinda reminds me of the refrigerator: always on, always cool. BTW, the PC talks to a cable modem and an Ethernet hub, and the macs talk to the hub. All of them thus have a full time inet connection. Using IP masquerading, the system only uses one "real" IP address. This comes in handy for keeping all of the mac clocks in synch for XTension. I use the Network Time control panel, and have it set to run every 24 hours. Shortly I'll be using the connection to ftp image files to a remote web site directly from the host XTension system. The bad guys may get my mac, but not before they're made famous on the Internet! HTH, Scot Marburger Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:34:59 EST To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 3:49 PM -0500 1/15/99, Steve Fyfe wrote: > Phil Pedersen said on 1/15/1999 11:29 AM > >>For the Internet gateway, I've been looking at two possibilities. >> >>1. A Mac running IP gateway software that allows multiple homing. >>This would require a PPC and 1 or 2 Ethernet ports. > > Why a PPC and not a 68K? Why 2 ethernet ports? Is not one enough? Open Transport doesn't run on some 68K machines (I don't remember what ones; I know it doesn't run on my Mac II) IPNetRouter requires OT. There are a couple of things here. I talked about using DSL in my original message, which gives you a full time 10Bt connection to your ISP. The DSL modem is on all the time and doesn't require dial-up. For this situation, you'd require 2 ethernet ports; one for the DSL connection, and one for your private network behind the router/firewall. If you're going to use a 56K modem as the ISP connection, then only one ethernet port is required. You'll still have a IP address assigned by the ISP and a private network on the other side. > >>2. A cheap PC running Linux. Linux has the services built in >>and is a firewall as well. > > Why not one of the Linux systems that run on Mac hardware? > > Why not a separate router in place of a computer doing the routing? > > I am considering adding similar functions to my system, so I'm interested > in your thoughts. > I've only started to look at Linux on a Mac (no spares ones around). I'm sure a 6100 or something of that power would be adequate for this. I know that the PC version works. A separate router is pretty pricey. The Netopia routers start at around $600, and Cisco router/firewalls get really expensive. They start at $500 + software and go up from there. A cheap PC or Mac and Linux would seem a more cost-effective solution for most house networks. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:40:48 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: XTension Incompatibilities? Hi Folks, > And Michael, could you start a list of "Known incompatibilities" as one >can find in most softwares (including sharewares)? > This list could be included in the Manual, and could be elsewhere >temporarily for "preliminary reports on incompatibilities to be confirmed". Actually there is a place for these...Known Bugs Usually when someone finds an incompatibility they ditch the freeware etc rather than trying to wrestle it out, so there aren't but a couple of entries there. Perhaps what we need is a listing of apps which are specially nice with XTension, and may need some 'notes' about configuration? If anyone knows of more of these, then please tell us about them. Surely there are more than we've discovered in the past 2 1/2 years? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:41:34 -0800 From: scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) Subject: UPS X10 Blocking A few months ago I reported that the UPSs I use would reliably pass X10 signals from the "mains" side to the "UPS" side. Last weekend, one of the UPSs stopped passing X10 signals accross the barrier. I don't know why, or what triggered the change in behavior, but for now one of the APC UPSs will pass X10 to the UPS protected side, and another won't. Any ideas as to why this happened would sure be appreciated... Scot Marburger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 08:11:06 -0800 From: scot@gunsmoke.com (Gunsmoke Engineering) Subject: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) Thanks again for taking this "feature" (OFF before ON) out. I've already explained why I think taking it out is a good thing, and I'm prompted by recent experience to request that another XTension "feature" also be eliminated. I'm refering to XTension's refusal to send either ON of OFF commands to units which the database shows to be already ON or OFF, respectively. The reason I make this request is that the database frequently goes out of synch with units that are locally controlled, especially units that do not send an X10 signal when local control is applied. When this happens, only an awkward work around will get the database and the actual unit state back in synch. This weekend's exercise revolved around the SmartLinc X10 IR transceiver, and the ON/OFF control of a stereo receiver, which is also controlled locally via IR remote and front panel pushbutton. Its one of those "push to turn on, push again to turn off" devices, similar to the cheapie X10 wall switch. The SmartLinc can, however, detect when the receiver is already on via an AC sensor cord, and block the transmission of an IR ON command if the unit is already on, and vice versa. That's a good thing. When using this feature it is necessary to have a pseudo unit for the receiver with an ON script that sends "all lights on "A"", and an OFF script that sends "all units off "A"" (the SmartLinc being on house code "A"). Trouble raises its ugly head when the pseudo and the actual power state of the receiver go out of synch. For example, if we use the remote to turn on the receiver, the pseudo state remains OFF, and subsequent attemts to issue an OFF command to the pseudo result in XTension not executing the OFF script for the pseudo. Same goes for ON commands. If, however, XTension always executed the ON and OFF command, including whatever scripts are associated with them, this problem (at least for this kind of unit) would be avoided. In addition, if this were so, the principle of least astonishment would not be violated, i.e. when a script or event triggers the sending of an ON or OFF command, the command would always be sent (as one might normally expect). I suppose one could test the state of the pseudo, and if one were trying to send an OFF, and the pseudo were already off, one could first toggle it ON. This is risky in instances where it would be undesireable to execute the script associated with the ON state, although I suppose even this could be "worked around". It does server to illustrate, however, how a band-aid applied to overcome one special problem can lead to all sorts of unforseen complications. In closing, here's at least one vote for always sending ON/OFF commands, regardless of unit state, or at least making this "feature" a selectable option in the unit editing dialog box. Any tips for "work arounds" in the current state of XTension would be most welcome. Thanks, Scot Marburger Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:38:02 EST To: XTension_Discussion@lists.bzzzzzz.com From: michael@shed.com Subject: OFF then ON Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, I've found the mistake in the code which turns OFF a unit and then ON when XTension thinks that it is already ON. This was originally to take care of devices like the chintzy X-10 wall switch which is fussy about accepting a command after it has been turned OFF physically. I've just taken out the test, so I'm not sure that this isn't going to cause some changes in the way your existing X-10 wall switches work... I'm sure you'll let me know ? It'll be in the next beta release. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 08:31:22 -0800 From: Thomas Arman Subject: Re: UPS X10 Blocking Scot, Here I go mixing a little knowledge with a lot of generalities and a dose of speculation. UPS's come in two general categories: Switched and Fulltime A Switched UPS (usually MUCH cheaper cost) has some "direct" connection between the input and output when the power is "on". When the power drops, the "direct" connect is broken and the inverter is switched onto the output (At this point some sort of "glitch" occurs in the output voltage. It is usually so small that "normal" consumer products are unaffected.). The FullTime UPS's (usually expensive) use the input to charge ("float") the batteries and invert the battery voltage to supply the output. So, when the input drops off due to a power failure, the batteries just keep on chugging along with no "glitch" on the output.Thus the name: Fulltime. So, if you have a Fulltime UPS, chances are that the X10 will NEVER bridge the UPS. If you have a Switched UPS, the X10 may make it through, depending on the switching circuitry. The simplest is a relay. X10 will cross this (obviously) but may get sucked out by the rectifier/charger circuitry. Other forms of coupling (semiconductor, transformer, etc.) may or may not pass X10 signals. I have two different sizes of TrippLite UPS's (switched) and neither pass X10. In reference to your specific question, it MAY be a function of the state of charge of the batteries (i.e., the load on the charging circuitry.) If so, when the UPS is at full charge, the symptoms may change. I would also try tripping the UPS a couple of times to see if it is related to the relay contacts. As I said, a little knowledge and a lot of speculation. Good Luck, Tom A. At 07:41 AM 1/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >A few months ago I reported that the UPSs I use would reliably pass X10 signals >from the "mains" side to the "UPS" side. Last weekend, one of the UPSs stopped >passing X10 signals accross the barrier. I don't know why, or what triggered >the change in behavior, but for now one of the APC UPSs will pass X10 to the >UPS protected side, and another won't. > >Any ideas as to why this happened would sure be appreciated... > >Scot Marburger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 08:33:02 -0800 From: matthew mcglynn Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) At 8:10 AM -0800 on 1/18/99, Gunsmoke Engineering wrote: > In closing, here's at least one vote for always sending ON/OFF commands, > regardless of unit state, or at least making this "feature" a selectable > option in the unit editing dialog box. Perhaps this has been suggested before, but if not: Rather than change the behavior of an existing command -- which could easily break hundreds of systems that depend on this behavior -- why don't we instead add a new command, "force on" or "force off", which sends the command regardless of the state of the database ? That way scripters can use whichever command is appropriate. This could also be implemented as an optional parameter to the existing on/off verbs -- a boolean value that defaults to false, which if true would indicate "send this command regardless...". - -- matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:08:11 -0800 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) > >Perhaps this has been suggested before, but if not: > >Rather than change the behavior of an existing command -- which >could easily break hundreds of systems that depend on this >behavior -- why don't we instead add a new command, "force on" >or "force off", which sends the command regardless of the state >of the database ? Actually, there is a "force on" and "force off" command, that turns a unit on and off regardless of weather or not it is "blocked." So you'd have to come up with a different verb. But I haven't really noticed the problem. Granted, all of my controllers control "control" units which actually control other "real" units. So, basically, I have all my motion sensors on HC A, and I have palm pads on HCs F, G, H, and I. These all command lights, appliances, and such on HC's B, C, D, and P. So I'll have a unit, such as "Bed Lamp Control F" which does the following as it's on switch "Turn on Bed Lamp." Bed lamp is the real unit, with simulate preset dim. F is the housecode that the palm pad that is for the bedroom is on. Using this setup, Even if something in the database is indicated as on or off, my scripts are still executed, so if I send an "on" to F2 (Bed Lamp Control F), even if Bed Lamp Control F or Bed Lamp is already on in the database, my lamp comes on to 75%. The only place I have a problem when they are out of sync is if I actually have XTension on screen (which is rare), and want to turn off a unit in the database which is indicated as off, in which case i either have to use the command line, or turn the unit on first. Is this the behavior I should be having? ie, should my "bed lamp control F" execute its on script when I send it an on, even though the database says it's already on? These controller units often are different from the state of the real light (for example, I turn on "bed lamp control F", which turns on the bed lamp. I then go to the theatre, and turn off "All Upstairs Control H" which turns off the real bed lamp, but "Bed Lamp control F" is still on., Now I go back up, and turn on the bed lamp with "Bed Lamp Control F" again),so I'm glad they always execute the right scripts. I'm just wondering if there's something different between my system and Scot's that causes this reaction. Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu Personal Email: Mailto:gard@indy.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:19:13 -0800 From: petitg@llb.saclay.cea.fr (Petitgrand) Subject: Re: A Plead for Courtesy >you're sure to have noticed the dramatic increase in list traffic >in the last two months or so. Sure we did, and unfortunately I don't think this reflects an increase of the number of list members, but merely an increasing loquacity of some of us. Before pressing the reply button, we should always first ask : "will it help somebody to manage his XTension-related system?" I don't think it's reasonable to post 19 messages (or even 10) in a day, nor to carry on one of his own post before reading the replies by others :=\\ It's there that the word moderator should take its meaning... I also subscribe to the suggestions of Scot, Matt, Chuck and others: - avoiding off-topic posts - post text only (NO html, NO enriched..) - better use of the Subject item. and I would also add one: - We should all remember that we are talking on the WORLD WIDE Web, so keep off from reporting on a good bargain we got at the shop just round the corner, this could be not really interesting for a list member living in Tasmania... Sure that remembering these guidelines should contribute to make this list "the delight it once was" :=) Daniel Petitgrand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:26:28 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) Hi Folks, Help me out here... I just did some tests and find that if I issue an OFF to a unit that is OFF, the command is really sent. Likewise if it's ON... IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change the value in the database, then no command is sent. But this should be only applicable to dimmables. What am I not seeing? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:29:39 -0800 From: "Chuck and Karen Coleman" Subject: Re: UPS X10 Blocking Ya know Scot. I have been dealing with little things like that for 15 years and I have no answers. For some unexplained reason it just quits and later on for some other unexplained reason it starts up again. I have even gone so far as to unplug/plug every outlet in the house suspecting corrosion at the plug. This is the reason that X10 will never become main stream. It has to be more reliable. Just some suggestions that have worked for me in the past. - - Make sure that Serial Comm is enabled in XTension if you are working from there. In power failures I have had it disable itself. I assume it is because the computer didn't find the LynX when it restarted and didn't enable communications - - Check all X10 connections. - - Use a controller that you can move from one outlet to another to see where the signal works and where it doesn't. - - Turn off/on all circuit breakers (corrosion possibly) - - Installed any new circuits or rewired any old one lately. (this is more common than one might think). This can be a major headache. - - some other device that is off/on that isn't usually off/on that may act as a bridge or source of noise. In my first house the dryer acted as a bridge and made everything work. Once it was off only half the system worked. - - Can't assume anything here. Have you changed any of the X10 codes and didn't tell other devices/controllers you changed them? Hope this helps out. I hate this part of X10 and am like a squeaky wheel in that we have to pressure the powers that be to make it more reliable. Good luck Scot. Let us know what you find. - -- Chuck and Karen Coleman coleman@teleport.com - ---------- > A few months ago I reported that the UPSs I use would reliably pass X10 signals > from the "mains" side to the "UPS" side. Last weekend, one of the UPSs stopped > passing X10 signals accross the barrier. I don't know why, or what triggered > the change in behavior, but for now one of the APC UPSs will pass X10 to the > UPS protected side, and another won't. > > Any ideas as to why this happened would sure be appreciated... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:50:31 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: A Plea for Courtesy Hi Folks, The delight of this list is that folks are helpful and very considerate. New members pick up on this right off and often comment about it. I do watch the posts closely, and sometimes if I feel that someone is just being loquacious, I try to engage them in an offlist chat. Although sometimes topics may be askew, the tenor of the list is kind and intended to be helpful. I couldn't ask for more. just keep being you michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 09:52:52 -0800 From: jreeves@aimnet.com Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) This is exactly what I am seeing too. I explicitly put tests in the scripts if I want to prevent sending a command if it is already in that state. IMO, this is a very desireable way it should work. James michael@shed.com wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Help me out here... I just did some tests and find that > if I issue an OFF to a unit that is OFF, the command is > really sent. Likewise if it's ON... > > IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change > the value in the database, then no command is sent. > > But this should be only applicable to dimmables. > > What am I not seeing? > michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 10:59:36 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: UPS X10 Blocking Chuck and Karen Coleman wrote: > This is the reason that X10 will never become main stream. > It has to be more reliable. > Hi folks, I would posit that the greatest problem is that there has been a great loss in the world of electronics....the FCC certification. There was a time when you couldn't sell a product in the US that was not 'FCC certified'. (If you haven't ever had to take a new product through the FCC certification process, then you have missed one of the great joys of life. It's Tough! ) It appears to me that this certification process has become a joke...maybe just too much to regulate, but nevertheless it is all but non-existent. Surely we'd like to have a completely plug-and-play system which never had problems, but I suggest that NO technology could suffer the hostile environment that has arisen in the past few years. >From Sony Playstations to cordless toothbrushes, and power bricks for your laptop, there are devices out there which can render any of your other devices helpless or degraded. There is only one thing that can help... Your vigilance! If you are happy with this whole HA thing, then you must also adopt a mind-set which considers every new toy or device brought into your home as a potential killer. Test and test again. I am continually reminded of just how well my system DOES work. Despite the gadgets and toys that I am always adding. X-10 as a technology has suffered a lot of hits for quality control, and specifically 'design decisions', but I think that if you consider the hostile environment that it's intended to work in, you will be a little more forgiving. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 11:01:16 -0800 From: Clark Martin Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice >There is always Apple's Internet Router if you can still find it. I have >an old old old copy running on a Mac SE. I installed a cheap ethernet >card. It's the only app running besides portshare. My localtalk network >(printers) are plugged into the printer port and my ethernet network is >plugged into the card. The software allows me to connect the two >networks without any problems. I think it was http://www.macworks.com that I saw AIR at. The price was pretty low to boot. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting clarkm@pacbell.net "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 11:06:16 -0800 From: Chad A Gard Subject: Re: A Plead for Courtesy > I don't think it's reasonable to post 19 messages (or even 10) in >a day, (caution, don't read this as a flame or a defensive whine. Just a statement of opinion) Do you really think it's bad for one person to post several times? (I'm assuming by 10 you're exagerating). I think that would vary with the day, what the current threads are, a person's level of interest and involvement with a thread, and so on. For example, on a typically busy day that I happened to glance back at (Last Tuesday, Jan 12), no one posted 10 times. Michael and I each posted 8 times, and several people posted 5 times. On another day, yesterday for example, things may be different. The most any one person posted was Steve, twice. I doubt that's because more prolific posters such as Michael, Scot, myself, and so on, were not reading (I can't speak for anyone else, but I was). It was just representative of the fact that the main thread was about Michael's site service, with the rest of the posts merely wrapping up other threads. I'd hate for anyone to feel he shouldn't post because he's already posted a few times on a given day. nor to carry on one of his own post before reading the replies >by others :=\\ I agree here, though sometimes it may appear that someone is replying even though the question has already been answered when that isn't the case from the poster's perspective. I've seen this happen several times, especially on busier lists like the FMP list at blueworld. Not everyone gets the same mail simultaneously, or even in the same order. I really don't think there is too much of the "I'll answer that post even though someone else already has" here. Especially since two answers to one question will often provide a different solution, and just seeing how someone else solves the same problem can be fun/interesting/exciting/helpful/liberating (pick an adjective). >It's there that the word moderator should take its meaning... Is this a moderated list? It doesn't have the stifled feeling of a moderated list.... Now, as far as the off-topic posts....What exactly is off-topic? In many cases it's obvious. For example, if I were to go on a tirade about AMX Vs. Crestron control systems, that would be off-topic on this list. But there's a lot of grey area, too. Is stuff about the home automation industry as a whole off topic? I suppose since this is technically the "XTension Discussion" list, it is unless it involves XTension. But much of the discussion here is about X10 signals getting lost, weather software, and stuff like that there. Much of this discussion is what makes this list what it is. I wasn't planning on going on like this (I wasn't even planning on responding to this thread, actually). But I think we need to realize what makes this list so great. Is it the signal to noise ration? While the list would probably suffer if we started using it as a repository for jokes and recipes, I don't think so. Most of the lists I'm on that are really strictly moderated and only allow exactly on-topic posts are also dry, boring, and about as fun to read as a manual from microsoft. On the other hand, there are other lists I'm on that end up having months-long enourmous threads that are clearly off topic (for example, ask which platform is better on the FMP list, and see what happens) or quickly move off topic. These lists tend to have large portions (entire threads, or occasionally entire people) filtered directly to the trash, which I know means loosing valuable info. The nice thing about this list is that it is conversational, much more so than many other lists. Like any conversation(s), it occassionally strays to related but off topic areas. This adds to the community feeling of the list, and adds flavor to daily email. Since we all have one thing in common (we are interested in home automation using XTension), things tend to stay pretty close to the core target without feeling stifled. It is also what makes it feel more like speaking with friends than any other list to which I'm subscribed (even lists populated primarily with friends I've really met there is less of a friendly tone). I really feel like I've made some friends in the few short months I've been on this list, as oposed to other lists, where at most I feel I've mailed with people I might be willing to call "accquaintence" in certain circumstances. On to Daniel's (who is one of the people I feel I could call a friend from this list) specific example, that of finding automation stuff localy. This kind of information may not be particularly helpful to many/most of the list subscribers, but doesn't mean it isn't of interest. For example, a few people have had fun with the Skyway Rider toy. Of course, I haven't been able to find one localy, but am working on getting one mailed to me. Another example, a few weeks ago someone found some X10 stuff at a wal-mart branded with a Thompson brand (RCA?). Of course, this wasn't the caase localy, but I was interested to hear it, because it may be signalling a future trend, speaks to the overal state of the HA industry, and shows that a manufacturer with huuuuge tracts of cash and major clout in the consumer electronics world is interested in HA. Again, don't take this as some kind of flame or personal attack. I just thought it was important to note that some people like the list the way it is, and don't want it to really be that much more focused. And man, that was long! Chad Gard Butler University, Instructional Media Services WWW: http://media.butler.edu Equipment Requests: Mailto:request@media.butler.edu Personal Email: Mailto:gard@indy.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 11:17:36 -0800 From: Robb Cutler Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) >This is exactly what I am seeing too. I explicitly put tests in the >scripts if I want to prevent sending a command if it is already in that >state. IMO, this is a very desireable way it should work. > >James > >michael@shed.com wrote: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> Help me out here... I just did some tests and find that >> if I issue an OFF to a unit that is OFF, the command is >> really sent. Likewise if it's ON... >> >> IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change >> the value in the database, then no command is sent. >> >> But this should be only applicable to dimmables. >> >> What am I not seeing? >> michael Aren't there really *three* types of units -- dimmable, preset-dimmable, and non-dimmable? Dimmable units can have a value from 0 to 100. Turning off the unit sets the value to 0. Turning on the unit sets the value to 100. Preset-dimmable can also have a value from 0 to 100. Turning off the unit also sets the value to 0. Turning on the unit sets the value to what it was before it was turned off. Non-dimmable can only have a value of 0 or 100. Turning off the unit sets the value to 0. Turning on the unit sets the value to 100. I would think that because the XTension database can fairly easily get out of synch from the actual state of things, my feeling is that it makes the most sense to not rely on database values when turning on or off a device. (And because the on/off buttons on the wall switches (at least the cheap ones!) force the state to 0 or 100 without notifying the database.) However, adding a modifier to the turnon and turnoff verbs to only send a signal to the device if the database would be changed would make sense... Regards, Robb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 11:33:17 -0800 From: Mark Hartman Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) At 9:30 AM -0800 1/18/1999, michael@shed.com wrote: >IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change >the value in the database, then no command is sent. > >But this should be only applicable to dimmables. So if I've dimmed a unit to zero, and then sent it an OFF command, nothing will be sent? This doesn't sound like a good idea, Michael; as I'm sure you know, some switches/bulbs "sing" even when dimmed to zero, but stop as soon as the OFF command is received. (I know, I can work around it by dimming to 1, then sending the OFF command, but that's a real kludge.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 12:02:20 -0800 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: UPS X10 Blocking I agree with Michael that X-10 does surprisingly well based on its design goals and costs. Unfortunately this means you have to know enough about the electrical wiring in your homes to almost be an electrician. I have learned quite a bit about my home's wiring and other electrical details from this list alone. This isn't a bad thing. However it is a barrier to entry for people who don't want to have to learn it. Home Automation seems to be stuck in that it cannot make the mainstream because people have to understand it to be able to use it. Every single successful device from automobiles to computers (?!?) have gone from the dedicated user who will make it work to those who just want to turn the key or press the switch. I keep hoping that some company will see the same vision of the future we all see and come up with a technology that can work over the hostile environments we have in our homes at X-10 costs. Greg At 2:03 PM -0500 1/18/99, michael@shed.com wrote: > Chuck and Karen Coleman wrote: > >> This is the reason that X10 will never become main stream. >> It has to be more reliable. >> > > Hi folks, > > I would posit that the greatest problem is that there has been > a great loss in the world of electronics....the FCC certification. > > There was a time when you couldn't sell a product in the US > that was not 'FCC certified'. > > (If you haven't ever had to take a new product through the > FCC certification process, then you have missed one of the > great joys of life. It's Tough! ) > > It appears to me that this certification process has become > a joke...maybe just too much to regulate, but nevertheless > it is all but non-existent. > > Surely we'd like to have a completely plug-and-play system which > never had problems, but I suggest that NO technology could suffer > the hostile environment that has arisen in the past few years. > >>From Sony Playstations to cordless toothbrushes, and power bricks > for your laptop, there are devices out there which can render any > of your other devices helpless or degraded. > > There is only one thing that can help... Your vigilance! > > If you are happy with this whole HA thing, then you must also > adopt a mind-set which considers every new toy or device brought > into your home as a potential killer. Test and test again. > > I am continually reminded of just how well my system DOES work. > Despite the gadgets and toys that I am always adding. > > X-10 as a technology has suffered a lot of hits for quality > control, and specifically 'design decisions', but I think > that if you consider the hostile environment that it's intended > to work in, you will be a little more forgiving. > > michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 12:02:39 -0800 From: Greg Satz Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice The Apple Internet Router (AIR) only works with MacTCP (predecessor to OpenTransport). You don't want to use AIR unless you cannot use OT. Greg At 1:18 PM -0800 1/17/99, Clark Martin wrote: >>There is always Apple's Internet Router if you can still find it. I have >>an old old old copy running on a Mac SE. I installed a cheap ethernet >>card. It's the only app running besides portshare. My localtalk network >>(printers) are plugged into the printer port and my ethernet network is >>plugged into the card. The software allows me to connect the two >>networks without any problems. > > > I think it was http://www.macworks.com that I saw AIR at. The price was > pretty low to boot. > > Clark Martin > Redwood City, CA, USA > Macintosh / Internet Consulting > clarkm@pacbell.net > > "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 12:16:33 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) Hi Mark, > > At 9:30 AM -0800 1/18/1999, michael@shed.com wrote: > >IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change > >the value in the database, then no command is sent. > > > >But this should be only applicable to dimmables. Of course this is incomplete. IF the unit is a 'simulated preset dim' type, AND the command would not change the database value, THEN no X-10 command would be issued. IF a 'dimmable' unit is NOT 'simulated preset dim', THEN IF the command is a hard ON/OFF (versus DIM/BRI), XTension WILL send the X-10 command. EVEN if XTension knows that the 'future' value will be the same as is in the database already. It works the way you want it to. (i think...) I've tried before to create some littany about 'dimming', but it's always gotten so complicated in the description that it defied the simplicity of its use. Think about it from the basic X-10 function and ignore XTension: The only queer thing about a dimmable module is : IF it receives a 'hard' X-10 OFF command, it will blind you when next you tell it to DIM to 20%... :-) XTension tries to help by offering the 'simulated preset dim' feature. Although it is intended that you DIM/BRI such a unit ONLY when you want to change its 'preset level', DO be reminded that you can still just DIM/BRI the unit in order to control it. XTension will just never send a hard OFF or ON to a 'simulated preset dim' type unit. Sometimes things get out of sync. Regardless of the reason, you need only issue sufficient DIMs to take the unit to zero, and then everything works again... Might there be some verb that XTension could offer which would re-sync your 'dimmable' units ? How would it work? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 12:34:00 -0800 From: Phil Pedersen Subject: Re: UPS X10 Blocking At 2:03 PM -0500 1/18/99, michael@shed.com wrote: > > I would posit that the greatest problem is that there has been > a great loss in the world of electronics....the FCC certification. > > There was a time when you couldn't sell a product in the US > that was not 'FCC certified'. > > (If you haven't ever had to take a new product through the > FCC certification process, then you have missed one of the > great joys of life. It's Tough! ) > > It appears to me that this certification process has become > a joke...maybe just too much to regulate, but nevertheless > it is all but non-existent. That's still the way, but the new regulations allow companies to self-certify. I've bought items that say they're compliant, but when I do a test on a completed system, I find massive problems with what are purported to be compliant boxes almost all the time. I've had to spend money to modify units or just tossed them and gotten another, compliant unit. (The last time this happened, it cost about $140,000. Not fun when I told management.) What it comes down to is the honesty of the manufacturer and the test lab. What I find most often is that the FCC compliance engineer makes changes to a unit to make it comply, but the "value engineers" always remove that stuff for cost reduction (since it doesn't really add value that the customer sees). The thing that's really scary is what changes get made without engineering input to products with UL safety requirements or other safety requirements. Kind of like redesigning O-ring seals without going back to the original design parameters and seeing if it still meets the requirements. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 13:00:10 -0800 From: john.brumleve@kzf.com Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) > Might there be some verb that XTension could offer which > would re-sync your 'dimmable' units ? How would it work? Hi Michael, The way I've approached this, so far, is to have an attachments script command called approximately "ReDim (theunit)" or, for groups, "RedimGp (GpToRedim)" that explicitly tries to dim the units to full bright before returning them to their previous database values. (The group version uses the list/group verb and references the singular command as a subroutine) This is similar to how the CP290 on X10's old software cycles itself from one dim value to another: "I'm at 50%. To get to 75%, I'll brighten the unit past 100% and then dim it down to 75%." I think I'm going to rewrite this routine to cycle down through 0%, with some extra DIM's, instead of cycling through 100%. I believe that the cycle down would be less visually disruptive than the cycle up. Question: I think I've asked this before... Is there a "send dims" command that could be used to explicitly send a certain number of DIM/BRI commands to a unit (regardless of its database value?) --Could be useful for this application... Toosentz, John - ----------------------------------------------- john.brumleve@kzf.com "As a matter of fact, it's ALL rocket science." - ----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 16:22:44 -0800 From: hvaneeden@worldnet.att.net Subject: Error-No Error I ran into a new problem after upgrading to version 2.1.3. A unit Family Room WindowTable Lamp exists in my system it had no ON or OFF script associated with it. This light is randomly toggled on and off just like numerous other lights. When this light gets an on signal everything is OK when it s gets a off signal the log records the message below. Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:00 PM Sending ON command for Family Room WindowTable Lamp Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM Sending OFF command for Family Room WindowTable Lamp Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM An error has occurred while executing the Off script for "Family Room WindowTable Lamp" - No error. Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:16:39 PM Sending OFF command for Dining Room Lamp Note that the ON command is Ok and the OFF command for Dining Room lamp is Ok also. The database indicates the lamp is off already, it is trying to turn off and lamp that is not on. I just this afternoon upgraded to version 2.1.3. Any connection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 16:52:19 -0800 From: Jeff Click Subject: Speaking Data? I'm still getting in to all of what AppleScript has to offer. Can someone throw me a bone as to how to integrate variable data and/or unit values into a speak command? Here's an example: I have a dimmable lamp unit named "Desk Lamp", which I'd like to have the value of spoken to me. How do I have its value spoken? speak "Desk lamp is set at" ...? What if I wanted to have the value of a variable "LampValue" spoken instead of just calling the unit directly? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 17:02:27 -0800 From: michael@shed.com Subject: Re: Speaking Data? Hi Jeff, There are several here who will offer better examples, but the idea is just : speak "The desk lamp is set at " & value of "Desk Lamp" seems too simple huh ? michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 17:04:44 -0800 From: Michael Holtzman Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice >At 3:49 PM -0500 1/15/99, Steve Fyfe wrote: >> Phil Pedersen said on 1/15/1999 11:29 AM >> >>>For the Internet gateway, I've been looking at two possibilities. >>> >>>1. A Mac running IP gateway software that allows multiple homing. >>>This would require a PPC and 1 or 2 Ethernet ports. >> >> Why a PPC and not a 68K? Why 2 ethernet ports? Is not one enough? > >Open Transport doesn't run on some 68K machines (I don't remember >what ones; I know it doesn't run on my Mac II) IPNetRouter requires >OT. > >There are a couple of things here. I talked about using DSL in my >original message, which gives you a full time 10Bt connection to your >ISP. The DSL modem is on all the time and doesn't require dial-up. >For this situation, you'd require 2 ethernet ports; one for the DSL >connection, and one for your private network behind the >router/firewall. > If your routing software does IP masquerading (IPnetrouter supports this, and I think Vicom Internet Gateway does also) then you only need 1 ethernet interface. (Note that there are security implications with only one ethernet card, which may or may not be a concern for you). Michael S. Holtzman Information Technology holtzman@StJohns.edu St. John's University (NY) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 17:05:54 -0800 From: Michael Holtzman Subject: Re: Network upgrade advice [snip] >BTW, >the PC talks to a cable modem and an Ethernet hub, and the macs talk to >the hub. All of them thus have a full time inet connection. Using IP >masquerading, the system only uses one "real" IP address. [snip] >Scot Marburger That's IP address translation (not masquerading). IP Masquerading allows one IP interface to respond to multiple IP addresses. Michael S. Holtzman Information Technology holtzman@StJohns.edu St. John's University (NY) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 17:23:40 -0800 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Error-No Error Hendrik W. M. van Eeden said on 1/18/1999 7:22 PM >Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM Sending OFF command for Family Room >WindowTable Lamp >Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM An error has occurred while executing the Off >script for "Family Room WindowTable Lamp" - No error. I recommend that you download the DBAudit program from the Sand Hill Goodies page, if you don't have it already, and run it on your database. It may tell you there is a problem with the db. Let us know if this works. Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 18:17:06 -0800 From: strader@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: New name for XTension How about MacHome? Or maybe M.A.C. Home - Macintosh Automation and Control for the Home? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 18:35:27 -0800 From: hvaneeden@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Error-No Error This is getting more weird by the minute. I ran dbAudit, it came back with no problems. I then deleted the unit and saved the database then recreated the unit exactly the same. The same error message. Then I gave a off script. A simple write to log "this is doing nothing" script. This message appeared in the log with no error message! Strange. Steve Fyfe wrote: > > Hendrik W. M. van Eeden said on 1/18/1999 > 7:22 PM > > >Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM Sending OFF command for Family Room > >WindowTable Lamp > >Mon, Jan 18, 1999 7:13:21 PM An error has occurred while executing the Off > >script for "Family Room WindowTable Lamp" - No error. > > I recommend that you download the DBAudit program from the Sand Hill > Goodies page, if you don't have it already, and run it on your database. > It may tell you there is a problem with the db. > > Let us know if this works. > > Steve > > _____________________________________________________________ > Steve Fyfe > Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 > PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax > Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 > Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 18:50:22 -0800 From: Steve Fyfe Subject: Re: Speaking Data? Jeff Click said on 1/18/1999 7:51 PM >speak "Desk lamp is set at" ...? speak "Desk Lamp is set at " & (value of "Desk Lamp") >What if I wanted to have the value of a variable "LampValue" spoken instead >of just calling the unit directly? speak "Lamp Value is set to " & LampValue Applescript automatically converts to the data type of the first item in the expression, so it will convert the numeric value to a string, and append that string to the end of the message. If you want the script to be more self explanatory you can do it this way too: speak "Desk Lamp is set at " & (value of "Desk Lamp" as string) HTH Steve _____________________________________________________________ Steve Fyfe Windward Services Group (978) 386-7260 PO Box 340 (978) 386-7322 Fax Ashby, Massachusetts 01431-0340 Information Technology that Works for Your Business ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 20:21:22 -0800 From: strader@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: X-10 & mac energy usage Hi all, Since the reason I first became interested in X-10 was to save energy because I could never remember to turn the porch light off in the morning and on in the evening, I recently looked at the energy usage of a few different X-10 modules and controllers. Also, I have been wondering which mac to leave running all the time, and energy usage is also a consideration there. Basically, it occurred to me that I could be using >200 watts around the clock in order to keep a 60 watt light bulb from burning all day. :) Of course, now that I have seen what else I can do, other considerations factor in. Anyway, I thought others might be interested in some of these numbers. Note that I measured these with an a/c ammeter and then multiplied the current by 120 volts to get watts. The ammeter only has a resolution of .01 to .02 amps, or +- 3 watts. However, repeatability was really good. Lamp module (off): ~1 watt Telephone responder (plugged in, but not in use): below detection limit Mini controller (plugged in, but not in use): 11 watts (I was amazed at this - it is now gone!) G3/333 off: 4 watts G3/333 on, in use: 48 watts G3/333 on, asleep: 42 watts (can still run XTension while sleeping) IIsi off: ~1 watt IIsi on (can't sleep): 26 watts Powerbook 520c off: 4 watts Powerbook 520c on, in use: 16 watts Powerbook 520c on, disk spun down: 15 watts Powerbook 520c on, asleep: 4 watts (can't run XTension while sleeping) I was really surprised that the G3 was the worst of the bunch - I would have thought that it would beat the IIsi. Obviously the processor is not sleeping in the G3, it is only spinning the disks down, but still... the IIsi fully awake uses less than the G3 asleep. I would be interested to hear if others had done similar tests, or if anyone knows why my G3 (and my mini-controller, for that matter) is so power-hungry! Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 20:41:36 -0800 From: Andy Montag Subject: Can my Mac talk to me on the phone? First, let me say thanks to all on this great list. I've learned a tremendous amount in the year I've been reading and asking the occasional question. Okay, after 5 years in this house, our basement had never seen a drop of water. So we decided to finish about half of the basement into a couple of rooms. Then on Sunday morning we go downstairs and find our water softener has gone berserk and is overflowing. A couple hours later, we've got that cleaned up and are catching our breath and hear a strange throbbing noise coming from the sump pump. It seems the plastic hose that the sump uses to dump into the yard has been crushed by the 30 inches of snow we had in the Chicago area last week and the pump is desperately trying to pump some water now that its starting to thaw. Yikes! A quick trip outside to pull off the crushed hose allowed the torrent to flow and saved the pump from burning out. The good news is that each event was caught in time to avoid any major damage, but had it been a work day, we would have come home to a very expensive mess in the basement. My first thought now, of course, was Xtension to the rescue. I plan on getting some water detection switches and either some powerflashes or an ADB-I/O, and to script extension to take some action when some water hits the switch. So here are my questions: 1) Anybody know a source for some water detection switches? I've got a little battery operated water alarm that I may be able to open up and get a contact closure out of but I'd rather find a switch or something that is ready to go. 2) I'm leaning toward getting an ADB-I/O instead of the powerflashes. I'm guessing this approach is more reliable than an X10 signal. Any thoughts? 3) And now the big question. What's Xtension going to do when it gets triggered? Obviously Xtension will announce the problem if we are home but what about when we are away? I've read the Yo-Yo tutorial and the new Cell Phone tutorial, but I don't have a pager or a digital cell phone with text messaging. Does anybody know of a way to have Xtension call my analog StarTac and talk to me? Once again, thanks to all the people who share their ideas on this list. Andy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 21:46:36 -0800 From: Burk Roberts Subject: Mystery "Icon" Script Hope this isn't too much of a no-brainer. A script named "Icon" keeps appearing in my Scripts menu. Nothing happens when I try to edit it or run it. I can delete it, but after some time it will mysteriously show up again. Has anyone else seen this? Is there something I can or should do to stop it? Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all its students. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 22:05:30 -0800 From: matthew mcglynn Subject: Re: Mystery "Icon" Script > A script named "Icon" keeps appearing in my Scripts menu. It's probably not a script, but the custom icon from the enclosing folder. Generally these are invisible files, but a variety of minor disk errors can cause these icons to become detached and/or visible. Try running Norton Disk Doctor, TechTool Pro, or whatever your choice of disk analysis/repair utility is. Alsoft's new DiskWarrior won't do it -- you need something (like Norton) that will go file- by-file through the disk. - -- matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1999 22:20:08 -0800 From: Gunsmoke Engineering Subject: Re: Always Send ON/OFF (Was: OFF then ON) Since I was the one to poke a stick in this particular hornet's nest, I'll have to admit that Michael is correct in that the ON/OFF commands, and indeed the ON/OFF scripts, are always sent/executed regardless of the state of the unit being commanded. I used the following test to confirm this: Create one unit called "Test", with none of the check box options enabled (all it does is go ON and OFF). Create one unit called "Pseudo", no check box options, but with an ON script that says "turnon "Test"" and an OFF script that says "turnoff "Test"". Connect an appliance module to a lamp with address set to that of "Test". Toggle the appliance module with a maxi controller to verify correct operation. Toggle by double clicking on "Test" in the master list, and observe the lamp go on and off, and the Lynx lights flash. Toggle "Pseudo" so its status is OFF. Toggle "Test" so its status is ON. Use the maxi controller to toggle the lamp, so the lamp is OFF. Now toggle "Pseudo" causing the ON script to execute, which is "turnon "Test", which is already ON. Observe the lamp come on, as "Test" sends another ON to the appliance module. Reverse the "polarity" of all concerned, and see it work again. So XTension does the right thing, and I owe Michael an appology about the bad report. That said the original problem, which inspired the investigation on the SmartLinc IR controller, wasn't fixed.I can't turn on the stereo receiver with "All Lights ON", or off with "All units OFF", reliably via XTension. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It always works when the commands are sent with the maxi controller, and maybe 10% of the time with XTension. I can see the Lynx lights flash, so I know something's being sent, but the SmartLinc doesn't respond. It does respond to other commands (mute, sound up, sound down, etc.) just not ON/OFF. Could the TW523 at the Lynx be on the fritz? I've reprogrammed the SmartLinc, but didn't see any change. Some additional clues: I am using one of the AC probes into a switched outlet on the receiver, and I've verified that power to the outlet cycles with the ON/OFF state of the receiver. Could it be that the probe is bad, and somehow always reports that the state of the receiver is off? I can turn ON the receiver with XTension more reliably (but not 100% of the time), and can never turn it OFF. Another clue: I read somewhere that one TW523 can drive more than one device, so I have an RCS relay box and the SmartLinc connected to a single TW523. Could the TW523 be bad, or just not work with more than one unit? The TW523 is the only thing on a non-surge supressed power strip, and all the stereo components and power supplies are connected to another power strip that is plugged into an X10 blocking filter. I don't see any noise with the Wadsworth tester. I've checked through the shed tech note on the SmartLinc, and the only change I made was to use one unit for power control, and use "All Lights on" for the ON script, and "All units off" for the off script. None of the selectable options for the unit are enabled (its not dimmable, etc.). Michael, was there any particular reason you chose to do this with two separate units? XTension V2.0.5, System 7.5.3, MacII, Lynx... (BTW, whats the latest "official, non beta" release of XTension?) Any thoughts would be appreciated... Scot Marburger > > Help me out here... I just did some tests and find that > if I issue an OFF to a unit that is OFF, the command is > really sent. Likewise if it's ON... > > IF the unit is 'dimmable' and the command wouldn't change > the value in the database, then no command is sent. > > But this should be only applicable to dimmables. > > What am I not seeing? > michael - -- Scot Marburger @ Gunsmoke Engineering Dublin, CA USA http://gunsmoke.com Email:scot@gunsmoke.com Ruger 10/22 Accuracy Specialist & Internet Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Digest To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in the subject.